| Author | Message | ||
     Kgj New member Username: Kgj Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2011 Rating: N/A |
I've found a number of helpful posts here on watch authentication and appreciate any input on this timepiece: Cartier 18K YG Santos Dumont Movement: Cartier 78X / ETA 2512 Manual Mechanical <img> 1. Dial detail: Notice the flat corners of the border within the dial on the Subject watch compared to Ref. 1 and Ref. 2. 2. Numerals: Thinner more elongated numerals on the Subject as compared to Ref. 1 and Ref. 2. 3. Signature A.: Signed "PARIS" on Ref. 1 compared to "SWISS" on the Subject and Ref. 2. 4. Signature B.: Micro-signature "CARTIER" in "VII" on Ref. 2. No mico-signature is apparent on the Subject or Ref. 1. 5. Crown: Subject: rounded cabochon; Ref. 1: flat cabochon; Ref. 2: faceted cabochon. <img> 1. Serial: Subject: 780970942. Ref. 2: 780972144. 2. Hallmark: Subject has two stampings centered on the back of the case. Ref. 2 features "18K Swiss" hallmark. 3. Signature: Subject features serial above "Paris", Ref. 2 features serial below. <img> 1. Quality: Movement appears unrefined for pre-1970 models from what I understand. Though accurate for an ETA 2512-based movement dating to the mid 1960's. Due to their reputation, I can reasonably assume that Ref. 1 sold at Christie's is an authentic timepiece. My concerns about the subject mostly center around the different numerals, "SWISS" signature, and flat corners in the border of the dial in the which may suggest some replacement or modification, contrary to the description of the piece and all parts as "original". Or these features may quite possibly be appropriate for the production date. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 5190 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I've never been a big fan of Cartier and as such I am not an expert. I'm turned off by the crappy movements they tend to put in their watches, particularly from the period of your subject. So unfortunately I can't help you with any kind of authoritative way BUT I can tell you that TONS of fakes and partial fakes pass through the auction houses all the time. So buying from them ios not a guarantee, but they will give you your money back for a period of 5 years if you show them that it is a fake. Now, on your watch, if it is in fact a French market watch, the hallmarks should have a French one, which is an Eagle head. Does it? | ||
| Kgj New member Username: Kgj Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2011 Rating: N/A |
Zaf, thank you for your comments. This is my first watch purchase, new or vintage, and the research I have done has helped me to put the brand into a more accurate light. I'm keen on the aesthetics and history of the timepiece, but more importantly I share your disdain for the movement in the subject watch compared to EWC movements in the 1930s. It's very helpful that you note that fakes and partial fakes pass through even the most respected auction houses. This is something that I will have to consider when assessing future purchases. From my understanding, the watch was sold in Germany. The hallmarks on the case interior include "122" and "18K 750". I cannot definitively make out an eagle hallmark on the case back but I have attached the best quality image I have available though this may not be of much help.  | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 5192 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
My gut feeling is that your watch is real. The movement looks right and the details on the rest of it, if they were fake, would enter the realm of 'extravagant fake'. Most fakers go for volume, not quality. This watch had a long production run, so there are always some variations. |