| Author | Message | ||
     Peter Cooper New member Username: Coops Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi All, New to the forum,and I hope I have not got here to late. Just wanted to know if its the real deal bit late if not I guess, as I won the bid!  This is the info from the seller Case = original 10K gold filled case has some minor wear & nicks; no rust or corrosion Caseback = original 10K gold filled caseback has a few minor hairlines Crystal = original plastic crystal is in good shape without any scratch Dial = all writing on this 100% original dial is visable & clean; no scratch or spotting, stunning and presentable Hands = original hands are in good working and cosmetic condition Movement = original signed Gruen manual wind movement is in good working condition; all hands are working correctly; not recently timed, regulated, or pressure tested; not guarantee for waterproof or water seal Winding Crown = original Gruen signed gold winding crown is in good working order, winds and sets time Band = comes with a matching black leather strap Could someone explain the term Goldfilled, sorry if that sounds a bit stupid and I'm sure its fairly obvious once explained. Thanks guys Hope its not a fake Regards Pete | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1734 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
It's probably real, however the dial, from the small photo appears repainted. I can only be sure with a larger photo. Gold filled is a type of gold plate, basically brass sandwitch in roughly an 80 micron gold sheet on both sides. TO be sure it is a Curvex, I'd also need the movement caliber. It needs to be a curvex movement, not just any rectangular Gruen. | ||
| Peter Cooper New member Username: Coops Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Zaf, Thanks for that I didn't have to pay to much for it 165 dollars. The sellers feedback is excellent. got a few more pictures for you.not any bigger sorry! Would you expect to see some serial numbers on the case back? But thanks Zaf feel a bit better about the deal All the best Pete   | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1735 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
If it's a Curvex movement $165 is a good price. The original dials are marked "Switzerland" at 6:00, so it may be a repaint. Unless you have a movement shot, I can't be certain its a Curvex, but from what I see it does look like one. | ||
| Peter Cooper New member Username: Coops Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
When it arrives I'll take the back off take a pic and post it,but as you say its a good price..too good.so theres a good chance its not a curvex mvt. the seller said "original signed Gruen manual wind movement" But I'll take a chance thanks for the advice greatly appreciated. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Posted From: 24.143.136.209 Rating: N/A |
Zaf, Actually, your description of gold-filled as being a "brass sandwitch in roughly an 80 micron gold sheet on both sides" is incorrect (by a couple orders of magnitude). The brass sandwich part is correct, but 80 microns (about 3 mils) is much, much, much thinner than any gold-filled item would ever be. 80 mils would be described as heavy gold plated. Gold-filled would be hundreds of times this thick, on average. The smallest amount of gold allowed to legally be called gold-filled is 1/20 x karat gold-filled, where "x" denotes the karat weight of the plate of gold and "1/20" means that the gold must comprise at least 1/20 of the total weight of the item. Anything less than 1/20 gold by weight would be classified as "rolled gold plate" or "gold plated". The gold layer on an item labeled as "gold-filled" may be 50-100 mils thick or more. There are 25.4 microns per mil, so this means that the gold may be 1,200-2,500 microns thick. A HUGE difference between gold plated and gold-filled. Greg | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1740 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I don't doubt what you are saying is true. The European market flared lug JLC alarm (JLC Dial & movement) has a USA made case made by Wadsworth, which is clearly identical to it's USA gold filled counterpart, is marked Or plaque 80 micron. That is what I was basing my statement. I had never done the weight to mil to micron conversion. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Posted From: 24.143.136.209 Rating: N/A |
I've never tried to buff one of the Euro-version flared cases to test, but a true 80 micron layer would go up in a puff of smoke at the mere presence of a buffing wheel. I know that some cases destined for different markets from the same case manufacturer were identical except for karat weight. Perhaps the Euro and non-Euro cases from Wadsworth were also slightly different (plated/gold-filled). I can't imagine them marking them differently when the gold content would have been so much higher than marked. Again, I've never buffed a Euro case to test. The U.S. flared lug cases definitely have a thick layer... I have tested that many, many times. Regards, Greg | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1742 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: |
Check this site: http://www.artisanplating.com/articles/goldfilled.html#introduction Seems to agree with an 80 micron thickness (they say 50-120 Microns). Something doesn't sound right with your figures for Gold Filled. 1200 to 2500 Microns is 1.2 to 2.5mm. There is no way Gold Filled has 2.5mm of material or even 1mm of material! That's probably thicker than some solid gold cases! | ||
| Peter Cooper New member Username: Coops Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi Zaf, Got the Curvex all looks fantastic Curvex signed mvt serial number. I thought the watch would be bigger can't get over how small it is. Were they all that small or did Gruen make anything bigger? Think my wife might steal this one off me heheh | ||
| Peter Cooper New member Username: Coops Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
Zaf, Got some numbers.think this is the curvametric serial number 651191 also on the mvt is 330 and on the case and written gruen watch company precision seventeen jewels and one word I could barley read but think it might be condruma And what make the deal even better custom did not sting me for import duty or vat the guy in hong kong wrote watch spare parts on the package! | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1750 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
330 is a Curvex. You got a good deal. | ||
| randy becker New member Username: Rbeck Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2006 Rating: N/A |
I need your help I just recieved a hampden 16jewel size? 42mm huntercase sr#1033926 year 1897 thats all I know can anybody help me,and tell me about this watch and if any body knows a value the whole watch is mint Thanks Rbeck | ||
| Mary New member Username: Msun Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2006 Rating: N/A |
Could you explain what is a 17 jewel mechanical and what do yo know about "Hoffrers Watch Co."? | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2061 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hello, I don't have any information about "Hoffers Watch Co.". 17 Jewel mechanical, refers to a mechanical watch movement in which the moving pivots of the watch are jeweled (rather than having metal rub on metal) to minimize wear to the mechanism and increase its longevity. | ||
| Txussweetie New member Username: Txussweetie Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi I also have a watch marked hoffrers, has anyone found info on it in the past 4 yrs. Its very art deco and is marked WESTFIELD 19K ROLLED GOLD PLATE has serial numbers also on the inside of the case. on the watch piece when taken out of the case and looking on the backside, fifteen 15 jewels , 2FF is in a footbaal lookin shape. Looks like its tarnished and some of the pieces look gold to me. I would appreciate any help. Oh yea the winder, has a blue jewel on it. Thank You Vickie | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2801 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Value will be low...it's not gold and it's not a brand that collectors are going after. | ||
| Kc5mqx New member Username: Kc5mqx Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Rating: N/A |
1948 Gruen curvex sold new 1948 Long Beach,CA. for $385. per Father friend who gave it to him and after his death 1998 I ended up with it. #0487517 on 6 @back and @ 12 on back looks to be icon of a two headed dragon bird with weat in its claws then Gruen 10K Goldfiled watch has V shaped crystal wich is tall in center from 12-6 and slops down like roof of house on each side and so does case looking from edge @ 6 toward 12 case is curvex manual wind 6 O'clock round secound hand face has been redone watch serviced by parks in jonesboro, ark. 1980s sometime and runs perfect and looks like new, well to me but I am sure as it is 60 yrs old? And I am not a expert or novice on watches? I own a new elgin and new gruen for myself> anyone know this watch and what I have? G 117783 #s +has a 370# has switzerland, gruen watch co. 17 jewels and all kind of small gold print on back of movement? running like a fine watch should and looks clean like new inside? Please help with any information that may help me to know what I have and what it may be worth? [email protected] | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2905 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Please post photos, there are dozens of Curvex models. thanks. | ||
| Kc5mqx New member Username: Kc5mqx Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Rating: N/A |
Photos of 1948 Gruen Curvex\ popjpeg{19338,}  | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2906 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
$385 sounds astonishingly high for a gold filled watch in 1948, you might want to double check that, it doesn't sound right. If it is in fact gold filled, the smaller sized Curvexes which this appears to be, trade hands at $400 or less, with a redone dial probably more like $275-300. | ||
| Kc5mqx New member Username: Kc5mqx Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, I did check, it was $285. per my mother as Dad is gone now and she said that is what the orginal owner told him? I had and have no idea, I have never seen one like this on the web but many years ago I saw one just like it with a blue crystal and jewels for the markers. And one just like it at a pawn shop in Little Rock Arkansas in 1980 for $110.00 which I thought was high at the time but guess not as it was orginal and in very fine cond. as this one is. Although I would consider a trade for a nice non ele. guitar of good quality if anyone is interested as I do not wear the watch as it is not water resistant and does not have automatic or battery movement. | ||
| Podge New member Username: Podge Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2008 Rating: N/A |
Peter Cooper said I thought the watch would be bigger can't get over how small it is. Were they all that small or did Gruen make anything bigger? Peter all 30`s and 40`s watches were of a small size he also said Got some numbers.think this is the curvametric serial number 651191 also on the mvt is 330 and on the case Peter if yours is a Calibre: 330 it will be a "Custom Curved" model not a "Curvametric", The "Curvametric" term was used for the Calibre: 370`s in advertizing. Member "Kc5mqx" later in this topic has a "Curvametric" calibre: 370 . I have writen a piece of the Gruen Curvex history and the Calibre`s The most famous Gruen wristwatch was the Curvex. These watches are one of the greatest examples of 1930s streamlined design. The patent for the movement was applied for (in both Switzerland and the U.S.) in 1929. U.S. patent 1,855,952 was granted on April 26, 1932 to Emile Frey of Bienne, Switzerland, but assigned to the Gruen Watch Company. It was later reissued to Gruen President Benjamin Katz's name in 1937, after Frey's death. The first Curvex wristwatches went on sale in 1935. During the mid 30`s, the fashion was for longer and more curved rectangular watches for men. However, the thinness and curve of the case was limited by the need to put a flat movement inside. As the case got thinner and more curved, the only conventional option was to use a smaller and smaller movement. By a clever internal arrangement of the wheels and bridges, Gruen solved this problem by building a curved movement, this allowed them to put a bigger and more reliable movement into a thinner and more curved case than their competitors could. Since the design was patented, these curved movements were exclusive to Gruen, Gruen owning the World Patents on the Curvex design. There were four men's Curvex movements. The original 1935 model was the long, thin calibre 311. This was soon replaced by the more curved 330 (1937), also long and thin. As fashions changed, later Curvex models used the short, squarish-oval 440 (1940) and the short and wide 370 (1948). Watches with the 330 were called Custom Curved and 370 models were called Curvametric in Gruen advertising, although the dials are all marked simply Curvex and Precision. Any man's watch that does not contain one of these four movements is not a Curvex. Calibre : 311 (1935) Long & Thin Calibre : 330 (1937) Long & Thin "Custom Curved" Calibre : 440 (1940) Square or Oval Calibre : 370 (1948) Short & Wide "Curvametric" |
