| Author | Message | ||
     Chris Newcomb New member Username: Christopher Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2006 Rating: N/A |
I have brought this in to a few of the leading jewelry stores and have had the value est. from $2000 to $8000. I would guess it would be more around $2000 to $4000. Anything more seems to high. But I am still at a loss of what it would be. It is 14k, and is the smallest back wind they made. It is in perfect running order, refurbished by Jaeger - LeCoultre with new "old" parts. It is a unique band. Does any one have a more accurate idea what it might be? I am looking to sell and want to give an honest price.    | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2016 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Realistically, it's worth about $400 + the gold content of the band. Probably much less than it cost to send it to JLC. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2017 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The leading jewelry stores are smoking something for sure. The last back wind I had, under the Jaeger-LeCoultre name, serviced and in good shape, fetched $600. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Unfortunately, jewelry stores have no idea about the value of vintage watches, but it doesn't seem to stop them from giving ridiculous estimates that have no basis in reality. It should be criminal. If you want to see how little the jewelers believe in their own "appraisals", go back to them and tell them you'll give them the bargain of the century... you'll let them buy the watch at 50% of their appraised value. Watch how fast they backpedal. Your watch model was called the "Par Excellence" and was produced by LeCoultre throughout the 1950s. There were several variations of the model which varied in cost from $330 to $1,000+ (for heavily jeweled versions or versions in platinum). Your watch would have been at the lower end of that scale. The movement in the watch is a caliber 426 backwind. Contrary to what you've been told, it is not the smallest movement produced by LeCoultre. Both the LeCoultre caliber 101 (world's smallest mechanical wind movement) and the caliber 104 are far smaller. In addition, the caliber 403 and 408 duoplan movements (at just 8.5mm wide) would also probably be considered smaller. The Par Excellence models come on auction quite frequently, so determining market value isn't hard. I'm sorry to report that they usually fetch just $350-$500 in good working condition. The market really favors larger watches for women right now and these small backwinds have been selling and very low values. I've bought/sold/traded dozens of these models and have 4 Par Excellence models in my inventory right now (unfortunately). I cringe to think at what JLC must have charged for the refurbishment. We chat about the outrageous prices charged by the factory for service all the time. Unfortunately, there is no way you'll be able to recoup that investment. Sorry. Greg | ||
| Anthony Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Greg, grouping all jewelry stores together hits a little close to home. Since I own a jewelry store and hear these type of absurd prices all the time. They are usually from stores that both don't deal in vintage jewelry or watches and are not in the business of buying pieces off the street. But please remember there are also plenty of jewelers that do know the market of vintage pieces. When people tell me these kind of prices I tell just what Greg says 'Show me the money' or have them put it in writing. Also please remember Jewelers are the people who sold the vintage watch in the first place. Also Greg you have think of the Market that buys these watches at auction or off the street and invests in fixing them up and reselling them both on line or in a 'bricks and morter' store and having to warrentee the watch. In this case the price of a bracelet vintage watch such as this one could approach $1,200 to $2000. this is certainly not what Mr Newcomb could expect. to recieve but since Gold went over $600 again today and he has had it worked on he might be able to sell it to a private party end user for $8-1,200 | ||
| Chris Newcomb New member Username: Christopher Post Number: 2 Registered: 06-2006 Rating: N/A |
Thank you both for the information. It does help, and now I know more about the watch. Luckily I didn't pay to have it repaired. A watchmaker broke some internal parts replacing the back wind, and the jewelry store ended up paying for the entire repair which was around $1500. The watchmaker had estimated the watch at $6000. The jewelry store probably though they were getting out of paying me 6 for the watch. That sucks, I would have taken the $1500 instead of them paying to have it fixed. I do agree that Jewelry stores do consider what they could sell the item for. I just think it depends on the store and the personsknowledge, not the fact that it is a retail location. One of the stores I talked to is a dealer in Sun Valley. He said I would get $2000 on a good day. More likely less though. I believed him more than the other stores, but had to get an honest opinion in case he was trying to buy it from me for a steal. Thanks Again! This helped considerably. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Anthony, No offense to the jewelry industry as a whole was meant. I did not intend to group *all* jewelers together as "bad", but we both know that most jewelry shops today don't have any sense of vintage prices. They simply don't trade in vintage pieces. It angers me, therefore, to see the damage they do when they attempt to quote market values to a watch owner who trusts them as an authority. Better for the jeweler to just tell them that he/she has no expertise in this area, or to do a little homework before writing the appraisal. The practice of writing astronomical appraisals has led many watch owners to lose money by paying auction listing fees trying endlessly to sell a watch at 10x its market value or deciding to have a watch repaired at many times it's market price. JLC itself is also guilty of this practice. I have seen them charge watch owners $1000+ to refurbish a simple 1950s lady's watch and then tell the owner the watch was worth $2,000..... when the *real* market value was around $150. Certainly, most every watch trader realizes that retail prices will average 2x auction prices because of overhead, but the abuses we're talking about here are many times that mark-up. I can visualize this particular backwind watch selling in a jewelry store at $800... given enough time. However the $6-8K quoted to the owner is beyond ridiculous. Greg | ||
| Chris Newcomb New member Username: Christopher Post Number: 3 Registered: 06-2006 Rating: N/A |
Greg B? Had a question. I was told that it was the smallest "back wind" Le Coultre made. Not the smallest wind. Is that still incorrect? Thank you for any info. Chris | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Chris, Nope, not correct. All of the watch calibers mentioned in my earlier post (cal 101, 104, 403 & 408) are backwinds, also. Here's a picture of the caliber 101 movement just to give you a visual reference, here's a picture of a caliber 101 (just 4.8mm wide):  and here's a picture of it's slightly bigger brother, the caliber 104 (5.8mm wide):  Your caliber 426 is 12.4mm across. Greg | ||
| Chris Newcomb New member Username: Christopher Post Number: 4 Registered: 06-2006 Rating: N/A |
Thank you Greg! At least I am informed now. I appreciate all your info. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Chris, I see that you listed your watch for sale with a price of $1,999.99. I had mentioned to you that the average price at auction was $350-$500 and Zaf told you that the last one he sold (retail) went for $600. I think you'll find that you're wasting your time and money by setting your price at 4x the average market value. Greg | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2056 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
If it sells, I'll raise my prices! | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Zaf, No need to raise prices just yet. As we expected, the auction tanked.... only 4 bids and a final auction price of just $61.00. That ridiculous BIN price and reserve kept bidders far away. Another example of jewelry store "experts" and bogus appraisals sabotaging an auction's chances. Obviously, the seller didn't want to hear the news that his watch wasn't worth $2000 to $8000, as the local "experts" (who had never handled or sold one of these models) told him. You would think that after all the info he got here (model name, year produced, movement caliber, size amongst LeCoultre model lineup, etc.) that his experts *didn't* know, he might have figured out that we knew a little bit about what we were saying. I had even mentioned in one of the posts that I had sold dozens of these exact models (I'm sure you have also) and knew the market price well from first hand experience. Oh well.... Greg |