| Author | Message | ||
     Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Does anybody know where I can find a vintage gold buckle for my watch (date 1958). The width of the band is 16. Thanks by advance. | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Not easy to find. It took me about six months to find one for my watch. Be careful, is "16" the width of the band at the lugs or at the buckle? Nothing worse than buying the wrong size by mistake. There is one real one for auction right now on eBay. Zaf, is it OK to post the link? There are also a couple of folks who sell reproductions there as well. Can't vouch for the quality of the reproductions, though. Good luck, gatorcpa | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1983 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Go ahead and post link, thaks for asking. | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thanks alot for the link, I found it. I've measured the band at the buckle, and it's 14, so it fits with the buckle. Don't know what's the real value of such a buckle, but I've seen a blancpain's one sold for �400. | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I paid about US$50 for mine, but it is hallmarked as gold plated (plaque). Looks identical. Here is the link to the eBay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Solid-18ct-Gold-Jaeger-Le-Coultre-Watch-Buckle_W0QQi temZ8941071311QQihZ004QQcategoryZ9242QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem This one has both Swiss and UK hallmarks. Hope this helps. gatorcpa | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
In the interest of authenticity, do you have a Euro-market (Jaeger-LeCoultre" signed dial) or a U.S.-market ("LeCoultre" signed dial) watch? Different gold buckles were used on the LeCoultre/JLC watches during that period. If you're going to the trouble of trying to find a correct gold buckle, the one on auction would not have been original to a U.S. market "LeCoultre" watch from the late 50s. The buckle on auction is for a Euro-market watch. Greg | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
My watch is euro-market, signed Jaeger lecoultre with the same logo as the buckle. But what do you mean by going to the trouble of trying to find a correct buckle ? Is it so risky ? Pierre. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Not risky... I simply assumed that if you're picky enough to want a JLC buckle on your vintage JLC watch, you probably wanted to get the CORRECT factory buckle for that model. Several different types of JLC & LeCoultre buckles were issued over the years on various models. I just thought I'd ask some questions about your watch model to make sure you had the right one. Greg | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
No offense at all, I really apreciate your feedback, be sure about that  I was asking about risk because it seems there is alot of mistakes easy to make with vintage watches, so I welcome any info available. Pierre | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
I have another question. Though the case of my watch is marked by 2 eagle heads (which means solid gold, isn't it?), the remouvable back case doesn't have one, only a mark (losange with letters P & J seperated by a drawing) here's the photo.  What does that mean ? Is it plated ? Does the number on it (168102) fit with a 1958 watch ? (Iljia told me it was more a 1940's case number...) Pierre | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Pierre - If you have not already done so, you might want to take it to a watchmaker, have the back removed, and record information from inside the case and the movement. There should be a karat (14K, 18K, etc.) or decimal notation (.585, .750, etc.) of the gold fineness inside the case. The serial number from the movement can help determine the manufacture date of the watch. Don't know about the case number. Mine is in the 800,000 range, which I thought was late 1950's to early 1960's. Hope this helps, gatorcpa | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thanks gatorcpa, I've already opened it, and Iljia Probst identified the movement itself. The case has 2 eagle hallmarks on its side BUT the caseback has nothing written except what's on the photo.(no hallmark inside) I don't know what it means : is it plated ? genuine ? I've seen on Ebay a few JLC whose gold back have several hallmarks inside (lecoultre, karat .750...) Pierre | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi Correction about my previous post : the letters are not P&J, but E&J. Maybe the hallmark represents the "Edmond Jaeger" initials. The fact is that the watch was certainly purchased in Paris, and every maintenance report I've found for the last 35 years are signed Jaeger only. Maybe at that time (late 50's), some swiss Lecoultre movements were sent in Paris to be cased by Jaeger. Maybe also that the 2 eagle hallmark engraved on the boxe's side means : one eagle for the case, and one for the back. But that's just hypothesis, so I'd like to know your opinion ? | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Pierre, You're correct about the hallmark being for "Edmund Jaeger". You'll find the same hallmark (E hourglass J) on Cartier watches produced by Jaeger for the European Watch & Clock Company (Cartier). The Cartier cases were produced in France and bore French gold hallmarks (your eagle's head hallmark is a French hallmark for 18K). Everything fits. You'll find many Jaeger-LeCoultre models with dials, cases and movements marked for Cartier... the common thread between both companies being Edmund Jaeger. Your caseback would seem to have come from one of the Cartier production runs. Greg Here's are a couple of pictures from the caseback of one of my 18K Cartiers showing the same gold hallmarks as your watch. a close-up of the hallmarks:  the whole view:  | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info, Greg, very interesting : at last the pieces of the puzzle fit together The curious thing is the fact there is no eagle head on the case-back itself (only on the box side), so I wonder if this back is plated or in solid gold ? A jeweller told me that it was common to find hallmark on only one part of a multipart jewel. Is it the same for watch cases ? | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
I think I finally found the answer, confirmed on several site on the web. The manufacture letters inside a losange means "solid gold or silver" from french production. It would be in a square or a circle if plated. Pierre. | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
I've found another precision : eagle hallmark is obligatory only for parts containing more than 3g of gold.For less it's facultative. I've measured the weight of the part : about 4g (=3g of gold in 18k proportion). Pierre. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Great info, Pierre! Funny how this simple thread on watch buckles morphed into a very informative discussion on French hallmarks. Greg | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Unfortunatly I've missed the auction that Gatorcpa kindly indicated me... But there's another one, linked above : http://cgi.ebay.fr/Jeager-Lecoultre-18k-Yellow-solid-gold-14mm-buckle-ONLY_W0QQi temZ8943808502QQcategoryZ31387QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The hallmarking however looks rather uncomplete, and the JL logo engraving looks rough, but I'm no specialist, and I would need trained eyes Do you think it can be genuine, or just a reproduction ? (I've written to Gatorcpa to get his opinion, but maybe it's better to ask here after all) | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1986 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The eagle head is the French hallmark for 18k gold. It is not necessarily accompanied by an 18k or a 0.750 stamp which throws many collectors off, that is is, they have no idea what that hallmark is. | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the precision, Zaf, but I'm not sure if you're talking about the hallmark of my watch, or about the buckle in auction on Ebay Here's the pict of what I was talking about. Does it look genuine to you ? Is it lacking official hallmarks ?  | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
The JL top logo looks a little rough, as you mentioned and the additional boxed JL logo on the back has never appeared on any of the genuine buckles I've seen. I would be tempted to say that the buckle pictured is a reproduction. There seem to be a huge number of these vintage buckles available on eBay all of a sudden which leads me to believe that a motherlode of mint NOS buckles was discovered somewhere (highly unlikely) or that somebody has found a source to reproduce them (much more likely). I'm also seeing repro gold buckles of other brands (Omega, etc. appearing on eBay). Greg | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I've shared this with Pierre earlier, but I'm pretty sure that this one is a reproduction, for the reasons stated by GregB. Also, JLC brand watches (unlike LeCoultre brand) were never assembled in the US, but this buckle has a North American style "18K" hallmark. This seller also has V&C and Omega buckles (in pink gold -- try finding a real one!). Although they are not as fine quality as the originals, they aren't too bad either. My guess is that most original buckles that were gold plated buckles were probably thrown away when the bands were replaced. Many other solid gold buckles were likely sold for scrap value when gold was $800+/oz. in the 1980's. Given the scarcity of original buckles, IMHO, this seller is doing collectors a favor. Provided, of course, that the gold tests out at stated purity. gatorcpa | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1989 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I was talking about your watch. The buckles look like reproductions to me. I don't have a problem with that as long as they are sold as such. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I'm surprised to hear Zaf and Gatorcpa so accepting of an item that obviously violates a manufacturer's intellectual property. The problems I see are: 1) These buckles are NOT being disclosed as reproductions. The auction descriptions imply that they are original vintage items. 2) By duplicating the "JL" logo or other manufacturer logos, there are trademark violations being committed. In addition, JLC would probably argue that the inferior quality of the finishing also reflects poorly on their brand. With the growing number of convincing fake/replica watches plagueing our industry, I'm extremely reluctant to support any manufacturer who contributes to the replica problem... even if it's just with buckles. Replica manufacturers are flooding the market with convincing grade 1 replicas of every major brand and it is damaging the online watch retailing industry. Even when a replica item is knowingly purchased as a replica by a buyer, I know that it will most likely enter the secondary market someday labeled as a genuine item and somebody will get swindled. Clearly, people install JLC or other original logo gold buckles to restore their watch to factory specs and increase the value of their watch to a collector. I would argue that installing a repro buckle doesn't achieve this goal. In fact, if I paid a premium price from a seller for a watch that was minty with original logo strap and gold buckle, only to find that the buckle was a low-quality replica, I would be peeved. Sorry guys, I just don't agree. A replica ANYTHING is never a good thing for the industry. Greg | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi, I agree with Greg about the violation. I would add that this guy never answered me when I asked for additionnal info. The fact is that he's selling these fakes in a $150-250 range price ! (including other brand's pieces) should we warn him ? Pierre. | ||
| Ilja Probst Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 190 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
As a purist I agree with Greg, but on the other hand, these buckles are so obviously reproductions that every *serious* collector should know. To be honest, I had some 18k buckles reproduced myself, just to have watches completed. In my book better than using cheap modern buckles... | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi Ilja, By cheap modern buckle, you mean modern JLC buckle ? Pierre | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: |
Ilja, The problem is that many people that buy the buckles may not be "serious collectors" and may not know. The seller certainly isn't telling them. In addition, after the buckles are installed on watches and sold secondhand as having "original JLC bands and buckles", adequate pictures may not be taken of the buckle area that will allow a collector to see that they are buying a watch with a repro buckle before paying. As we have all seen, a mint watch with an original factory buckle is worth a HUGE premium. However, a mint watch with repro buckle should be worth only $120 more (gold scrap), if that. I'd be pretty upset (as a buyer) if I paid the premium price and received a watch with repro accessories on it... yet I know this is happening out there in the market. As high-grade replica watches and parts are dumped on the market, zero tolerance to trademark infringement is going to be important to the survival of our industry/hobby over the next several years. We have to take a stand and not be lured by the quick financial gains or easy part sourcing, lest we join the ranks of less reputable sellers like the guy in Canada that is cranking out fake LeCoultre Chronos. Greg | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: |
Greg - Wow! I didn't mean to start such a firestorm. Technically, you are correct of course. It is a violation of trademark rights. However, I would think that if JLC made new "vintage style" buckles (even in gold plate) avaliable to hobbyists on this side of the pond, we would not be having this discussion. A lot has to do with the honesty (or lack of same)of sellers regarding the repro buckles, re-dials, etc. I guess I erred in not mentioning the fact that these buckles are not specifically identified as reproductions. You are again correct in that others might not realize the difference. I have to admit some degree of frustration with manufacturers who make it difficult to find the original cosmetic pieces. I only wish some of the marketing money would be spent on some sort of a distribution system for this material in the US. Omega is pretty good that way. It has US distributors of factory authorized material like bands, crystals and buckles, so hobbists make may their watch as original as possible. JLC does not. Again, I realize it is probably a money-losing proposition for the manufacturers, but if they don't satisfy the (admittedly small) market, someone else will. Whether we like it, or not. I really don't know what the answer to this problem is, but I'm open to suggestions. Take care, and thanks for a very health discussion. gatorcpa | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
gatorcpa, If you re-read my comments and the responses by others, I don't think you'll find a "firestorm". Rather, just a level-headed discussion of why supporting the replica market (even in buckles) hurts our industry. I simply had a different opinion on the buckles than Zaf and yourself and wanted to elaborate the specific reasons for my opinion. Hopefully, I've also made you re-think about some of your original views on the subject. With regards to JLC and others making vintage-looking pieces available, I would have to say that is some of the fun of the "chase" and the reason that watches bearing original bands, buckles, etc. are valued so highly. I think that's as it should be. Vintage is vintage. It's out there, but you have to do a little work to find it.... but when you do, it's sweet! Greg | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1991 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
JLC has possibly THE WORST treatement of vintage collectors of any manufacturer. They charge THOUSANDS of dollars for service trips and provide no parts support whatsoever. I once had an estimate for 2000 EURO to service my 1940s moonphase. WTF? In a way, if reproduction parts are being made available, JLC brought it upon themseleves by their hostile treatment of collectors. I don't have a problem with these as long as they are sold as such. Just like repro parts on old Mustang or Camaros. I nearing the point where I am going to repro some bumper automatic parts (in China) since no one has them and I don't want to spend $1500 on a service that should cost $125-175. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Zaf, I would agree that JLC treats their vintage customers poorly. There are very few major watch brands that *do* support the vintage market properly with parts and information, but JLC is probably worse than most. Nevertheless, it doesn't justify trademark infringement or the support of the replica market, in general. If your argument is that you need access to scarce parts in order to maintain vintage watches and those parts aren't available anywhere at any price, few would argue if you made replacements... UNLESS you also put JLC branding/engravings on those parts and then tried to pass them off as factory original. The vintage parts supply has been deteriorating for years and is about to get a lot worse: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f214800/214815.htm Greg | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Greg - I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these issues with you on this forum. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I have to side with Zaf on these issues. If JLC does not want to allow controlled distribution of parts within the USA, then the market is going to fill the gap one way or another. Whether this is legally right is irrelvant. It's going to happen, like it or not. What's sad is that JLC could stop this by simply producing the parts and selling them here at a large markup. Oh yeah, I forgot. Old LeCoultres were never made by JLC, (that's what JLC says). So there's no reason to sell parts in the US for watches which never existed! While I'm not happy with the repro JLC buckle producer, honestly, what is the alternative if JLC won't supply them here? There's a very good reason that car companies either continue to supply new vintage car parts or authorize other to make them. It keeps the interest in the brand alive among collectors. It's a shame JLC is so short sighted. Just my deux centimes (zwei euro cents?) worth. gatorcpa | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Whether this is legally right is irrelvant. It's going to happen, like it or not. gatorcpa Irrelevant? When is legality and morality *ever* irrelevant? Yes, counterfeiting may happen, but we (the honest dealers/collectors) don't have to be the ones to participate. Just because a company (JLC, in this case) acts in a way that causes you inconvenience doesn't justify breaking the law or acting in an immoral way. I can't believe this would even be a point we should have to debate. JLC may be short-sighted, but it's their right to be so. It's their brand, their trademark and their product to distribute and sell as they see fit. If we don't like the way we are treated, we can spend our dollars elsewhere. What we *don't* have the right to do is take matters into our own hands, ignore the law and make counterfeit goods. The mint issues currency proof sets that are in such high demand and short supply that they have to conduct lotteries to determine which lucky few people will be allowed to purchase them. The people who aren't allowed to purchase proof sets probably feel mistreated and inconvenienced. Should they go out and print their own counterfeit proof sets in protest to the poor way they're being treated by the mint? Of course not, but that's exactly the same thing you're proposing with watch parts that are in short supply. We don't live in a society where we get to make our own rules because somebody else doesn't do what we want or doesn't treat us the way that we want to be treated. The ends don't justify the means. I won't belabor the point with more posts to this thread. With the damage that counterfeit goods are doing to our industry, I never in a million years expected this would be an issue that even needed debate. Greg | ||
| Ilja Probst Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 191 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
@ Pierre: I meant generic buckles supplied with straps you can buy at every corner jewellers. Current production JLC buckles are a solution for those who at least want to have the watch entirely branded. - This I�ve done with steel watches, but original solid gold JLC buckless are priced up the roof. Just to clarify, I never sold a reproduction buckle, nor will I ever do. @Greg I appreciate your point of view, even when there are some grey areas, ie. JLC reproduces parts as well, or services watches not to vintage standards by using aftermarket stuff. For me JLC isn�t the brand it used to be anymore. They have lost the spirit that made this particular brand so unique. | ||
| Hex onX New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 151 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
My two cents. Unfortunately isn't worth much but I like to keep it simple. First off, there are lots of folks pushing things as NOS which are probably using repro parts. Some folks are worse than others. IMO, if one is 100% honest with a detailed itemized description, they get penalized. Would I like to know if the buckle is original or not, sure. However, if it's a repro and it matches the original, would I mind? If it was a very expensive piece, probably but that is where the honesty comes in to play. I would really be pissed to find out that it was not original and played up being so with NOS plugs and other key words. The collective competition is out there and so far they penalize the honest seller verses the marketing seller. It's the edge for those who have better appraisal skills to make the decision based on pictures rather than words. That's how the auction market is currently going. There are other hidden bits like off year boxes and paper work but that's another discussion since that doesn't come up very often. Regarding buyers message questions to sellers. Do these authenticity questions get answered by the seller. IM experience, most of them will not answer. This leads me to believe that many are not experienced when they are auctioning a estate or consignment item. There are very few who give a technical and honest description including timing test results or other wanted information. Those IMO are the true collectors collector. I have been looking for the right buckle for my worldtime since I got an ebay account. I'm still looking so I can get rid of the spiedel bracelet. | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Greg - You've totally missed my point. The marketplace is a perfect balance between supply and demand. If there is a demand for a product and money can be made, someone will create a supply, whether legal or illegal, moral or immoral. Doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Again, I'm not condoning the practice of producing unlicenced reproductions, or counterfeits of anything. However, please don't villify me for stating the practice exists, because it does, like it or not. Not everyone plays by the rules of polite society. At least Rolex prosecutes the fakers and provides somewhat reasonably priced restoration services to ensure the "purity" of their brand. Since JLC chooses to do little, if anything, to assist watch collectors restore vintage pieces, or to protect their intellectual property, it is likely that their image will needlessly suffer. See Ilja's comments for an example. The power is in JLC's hands, not ours. Sorry if I offended you in any way, but to deny something exists, is in a way, condoning its very existence. That's not a healthy thing. gatorcpa | ||
| clavi Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I like having the correct looking buckle to complete my watches, and since the JL 'old style' are not available for sale new, I don't see a problem buying the reproduction item since it is a 'part', and not available for sell by the brand (which therefore doesn't do its work at supplying its 'historic' clients if we might say so) As an illustration, say for example you own a very nice vintage Volkswagen Beetle, and you want to restore it. You car, among other things, is missing its VW branded hubcaps, which are an important component of the visual aspect of the car, although not really a functional part. VW won't provide you with the part since the car is too old and they have stopped keeping inventory for it. What would you do if you were to replace the original hubcaps that went missing ? There aren't any 'original' ones available for your car, but you can find the exact aftermarket part which will allow you to complete your restoration  Would you leave your car with 'empty wheels', looking naked and not complete, or install the perfect matching repro ones ? Do you consider them fakes as they bear the VW logo, or just aftermarket replacement parts like when you replace the car windshield wipers by generic ones (which I believe is not a crime !) I would go for the repro hub caps and the repro buckle rather than having the car and the watch naked, but I understand your views differ  | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
You're right guys, the ends does justify the means: 1) If you can't afford a real JLC, it's OK buy a fake. Forget about the trademark infringement and the legality... I want one so that makes it right. If JLC wanted people to buy the real thing, they'd make them cheaper. It's JLC fault. 2) I wanted a real Rembrandt, but I could't find one, so I stole one. I think that's fair. After all, I tried to buy one first, but couldn't. If they don't want people to steal, they should make Rembrandts available to everyone. 3) There aren't very many nice JLC Chronos around, so there's nothing wrong with faking up a dial and carving JLC markings into a movement and case. After all, look at how high people bid for them.... there's an obvious demand in the market. Since JLC isn't satisfying that demand, what's wrong with the Canadian/Russian seller creating a supply? Somebody has to do it. See how silly that sounds? Just because you want something and have trouble finding it, doesn't justify going outside the law to obtain it. There are repercussions on all of us when you do. I've give up trying to reform the world, but I thought I would at least find some ethics in this forum.... especially since we've all seen how the replica watches have hurt our industry and our hobby. Laws are laws. They exist for a reason and we can't suspend them to to satisfy a whim. Trademark and intellectual property rights are being trampled. If you're willing to look the other way, you've lost the moral right to point fingers at others in this forum who make or sell fakes. Vintage pieces, be they Volkswagon hubcaps, Memovox rotors, JLC buckles or anything else, *SHOULD* be hard to find. That's the nature of vintage and what makes the hunt worthwhile. Not everyone can own a pristine NOS 1950s F-Matic, but if you want one, you'll work hard to search for it. When you find it, there's a great satisfaction that comes from owning something rare and beautiful.... and unadulterated by replica parts. I'm disappointed and saddened at what I've found out about people from these posts. I expected better. Greg | ||
| POLARIS KING Unregistered guest Rating: |
Greg, I am a long time reader of Zaf's forum. Generally, I have found FT to be informative as wellas entertaining. You, on the other hand claim to want to uphold the law and obviously object to reproduction parts. So, why is it that you have auctioned off several JLC Memovoxes on EBay as "authentic" when in fact the world time dials are not original to your wtch and are indeed REPRODUCTIONS? Are you not as guilty as our Canadian "friend"? | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Polaris King (whoever that might be), There has never been a worldtime Memovox auctioned by me that was anything other than authentic. Nor do I think Zaf or any of the other parties to this discussion would stand with you on this point. If you'd like to make such serious accusations, be please specific with details so you lend some small shred of credibility to your claims. Greg | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Hi, I've asked directly to JLC Vendome if they had vintage buckles, and they sent me a picture of a model I've never seen before : a vintage styled modern buckle. I called several resellers, and only Vendome was able (after some insistance) to show the existence of this model, which may be only reserved for watch restauration. However, this buckle may interest collectors who are lookin for a compromise between neverending research of original buckle, and a modern JLC product. But for me the quest continues... Pierre.  | ||
| Clavi Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
This buckle doesn't match any style of vintage buckle, therefore, I'd rather go for either the modern contemporary one, or the repro which is far closer to the initial buckle IMHO. There is no real point using the one shone above I think Thanks for the effort of asking anyway | ||
| Ilja Probst Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 194 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The buckle Pierre posted is 80�s style. Some of these are left in the factory, JLC once was kind enough to give me one as a gift. Well, this happend before the brands ownership changed... | ||
| Pierre Droal New member Username: Arctis Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
Ok, so it's a kind of vintage buckle... They don't give these as gifts anymore : cost = �320 Anyway we are far from the 60's. Pierre. | ||
| clavi Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
320� for a tang buckle ? I prefer to buy a vintage Jaeger LeCoultre watch for that sort of price If I am (very) lucky, I even might get an original buckle as part of the deal :-) | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Absolutely absurd! Sorry GregB, but now I know why the Canadian is making a mint selling gold repro buckles. gatorcpa | ||
| Les Backus Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Need a clutch wheel for my LeCoultre Memovox K825. Just had it cleaned and was informed of the need. Can anyone help? Thanks for your time. | ||
| anthony Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
My take is that at least 90% of watches from the 30's thru the '60 and into the late '70s were either sold sold with a stretch band [ie twist o flex] or at some time after the sale one was put on and the Gold filled buckle was thrown out. Adding the metal bracelet to the original sale could add 10% to the sale. Remember you could buy a fine swiss watch for $50 and a solid gold Patek might retail for the obsene price of $500. My point is that most buckles ended up in junk heap very early. 2nd thing Like the cases the buckles were many times manufactored here in the states because of duty taxes. Leather watch bands really have made a big come back only in the last 15 years. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Anthony, You'll find no argument about the large number of watches sold on stretch metal bands.... particularly the Memovoxes. However, for the gold dress models that were sold on leather or suede straps, the reason that most of the original signed buckles were thrown out was that they wouldn't fit on the replacement straps. If you examine the old straps from the 1950s and 1960s, you'll see that they taper much more than modern straps. There was a 3-4mm taper between lugs and buckle, whereas a 2mm taper is most common today. Therefore, the vintage buckles were usually 1-2mm too narrow to fit the replacement strap. Since the buckles wouldn't fit, they were either set aside and lost, or thrown away. Greg |
