| Author | Message | ||
     Buzz Rickson New member Username: Buzzrickson Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2006 Rating: N/A |
hi to all, on tom dowling´s www.ukwatches.com page i found a european futurematic - nothing special. what catched my interest was the discription. dowling discribed the quality differences between the european and the american assembled futurematics. is there really a measureable quality difference? i simply quote mr. dowling here: >>>The “Futurematic” was introduced in 1953 when most of Europe was rebuilding after WWII and there was almost no market for expensive watches, so almost all of these were shipped to the US as bare movements and then cased there, mostly in GF cases, and all labelled as “Le Coultre”. This makes this watch especially rare as it is a Jaeger Le Coultre (meaning it was originally sold in Europe) and it is made from steel. If truth be told, the quality of both case & dial construction on the European watches is MUCH higher than the US Le Coultre ones, comparing this watch to a normal US cased GF one is like comparing chalk and cheese. Making this an even nicer package, the watch comes with its original box & papers.<<< | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1877 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The difference has much less to do with the futurematic than with the comparision of a gold filled vs a stainless steel case. The dials on the US ones are of comparable quality. In fact I'd argue they're harder to make as they were often more colorful. The dials were made by JLC in Switzerland, so quality wise there is no difference. For example if you compare a steel Futurematic in the US market or the Euro market, the quality is the same, though there are market specific differences such as the dial print, etc. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Mr. Dowling also incorrectly describes his steel F-Matic as a "cal 497" movement when it is actually a much more scarce porthole model with a caliber 817... I don't think JLC is really his strong suit. Very interesting "E" (waterproof) designation on his screwback case. I'm not the F-matic expert that Zaf is, but I hadn't seen a Futurematic with a waterproof screwback case before. Maybe I just haven't been paying close enough attention. Greg | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1881 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: |
From what I have seen, mixing all the versions together: Gold filled - snap back only. 9k - snap back only. 14k - snap back only. 18k - snap back and screw back. Steel - snap back and screw back. Zaf | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 118 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
This thread is pretty interesting. I've previously read Dowlings site. The notes are interesting.  Except: I can't figure out where Greg got the E from the caseback, unless he is referring to the first letter of the engraved name E. Massey. Also, I read Mr. Dowling is quite proficient in the art of watchmaking. Can a cal 497 even work with the cal 817 port hole dial? Something is strange here. | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Hex - A couple of points from your posts can be clarified: 1. The "E" notation that GregB refers to is on the paperwork shown. It would also be present inside the case back. I do believe that this represents a waterproof case. Please see catalog listing below. http://tp178.com/tjn/jlc/future.jpg 2. The cal. 497 and 817 are identical except for some parts related to the change in the dial configurations. Zaf has been nice enough to host this information at the following web address: http://www.classicwatch.com/JLCMuseum/Caliber-details/Caliber_817.jpg So, it is possible for the rotor to have been replaced. Without viewing the movement, we'll never know. 3. In my opinion, the JLC cases are somewhat better made than their American cousins. The movements are identical in every way. Since this is a European JLC in steel, which I understand are pretty rare, provided that the movement is original (see 2. above), then it might be worth the asking price. Hope this helps, gatorcpa | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 119 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
Gatorcpa- That information is very helpful. So a 497 could be used for this type of dial. I almost have to be a "CPA" to read between the lines. Thanks!!! | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1882 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
It's probably just a typo. The caliber is stamped on the movement plate too, so it is not enough to swap rotors and move around the wind indicator parts. | ||
| gatorcpa Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Hex, you read my info backwards. What I meant was that it is possible to swap a 497 rotor for a worn 817 rotor. At first glance, the 817 would look like a 497, since they are basically the same. It would be very difficult to use a true 497 movement, as the other differing pieces would have to be swapped out. I doubt it's worth the trouble of finding those parts, even at that price level. I can count the number of cal. 817 parts I've seen for sale on one hand and have a few fingers left over. Again, since there is no picture of the movement, it's impossible to prove anything for sure. I'm with Zaf on this one. It's probably just a typo error. gatorcpa | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1883 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
"E" on the case backs is short for "Etanche" meaning water proof in French. So a case reference of E501, indicates a screw back watch. | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 120 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
Okay. I got the "E" info and now the mod correctly understood. This is quite a rare watch considering the special case and movement. The SS case is probably very hard to find. |
