| Author | Message | ||
     ronald Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Will a vintage Lecoultre Worldtime alarm( manual) carry the word Memovox on the alarm disc dial? | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1370 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The one I have in my collection does... | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Ronald, Be extra careful when buying worldtime models. About 90% of the ones I have seen for sale recently have been bogus. There are a few people doing low-quality dial re-painting to make their watch into a worldtime model. There have also been loose worldtime discs floating around eBay for sale in the past. People use these to convert their non-worldtime watch into a worldtime. Here are a couple photos of my late 1960s Worldtime Auto that I thought the group might enjoy seeing. Sorry about the poor quality pictures. Not quite up to my usual standards, but they were taken years ago when I just bought my digital camera and hadn't learned to use diffused lighting yet. This particular watch was owned by President Lyndon Johnson and was later gifted to an immigrant family that Johnson himself sponsored in his hometown in Texas. There is an near identical Memovox Worldtime owned by the Johnson Presidential Museum. The museum staff has been very helpful in helping me authenticate my watch and trace its provenance. They tell me that Johnson loved his Worldtime. Enjoy! Greg     | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1371 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Do you ever catch yourself saying stuff like: "We are not about to send American boys nine or ten thousand miles away from home to do what *insert nationality here* boys ought to be doing for themselves." | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Zaf, Is that an LBJ quote? Things never change, do they? By the way, here's the Worldtime Alarm that is in the LBJ Museum in Texas. The Museum staff shot the pix for me:    | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1373 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Yes, that is an LBJ quote, probably his most famous. The funny thing is that he escalated the situation soon after. Go figure. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Zaf, Do you have any info on what the chronological order was on the production of Worldtime dials with radial printing of cities (like spokes of a wheel) vs. concentric printing? I had heard that the radial printing preceeded the concentric and that the Factory switched because the radial printing looked too cluttered on the dial. Is this correct? Just wanted to confirm the rumors, I've heard. Also, do you know how long the radial printing was used before it was phased out? Dates? Would Ilja have any info on this in his catalogs? Thanks! Greg | ||
| Ilja Probst Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 133 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hi Greg, I don�t have much about the Worldtimes and Parkings in the catalogs. My stuff is European market and honestly, to me it seems the people here had no real use for these features. What we found out are "working theories" which we better don�t speak out public - to avoid supporting the "creatives". ;) That Memovox is GREAT! Say, you don�t have one of the Geophysics given to the Submarine commanders, do you? It�s a pleasure to have you on board Greg! Ilja | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1375 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Ho Greg/Ilja. Ilja actually has the catalog info. So far, for the European market, we can only definitely confirm (with a case back reference number specific to the worldtime, that the worltime only came as a manual wind watch. I have no confirmation that it ever existed as an automatic. Now for the USA market, things get very murky. There are no records to speak of. I'd love to know where they went when the USA operation was shut down. Clearly, as you have, an automatic worldtime exists, but it will be practically impossible to authenticate as I belive the case references are the same as the non worltime watches. Perhaps you have ads showing automatic worldtimers? That would be useful. Zaf | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
No ads found showing automatic worldtimes yet. I'll double check. I've seen just a couple of other authentic automatic U.S. market worldtime memovoxes in the last few years. I've seen far more bogus/owner-manufactured automatic worldtimes, mostly in SS. Usually, they're easy to spot because the worldtime dials are poorly printed or they don't fit properly with respect to the outer dial. I believe the real ones are quite rare. Ilja, no Geophysics in my collection... yet. I'm surprised to hear you speculate that people in the Euro market had no use for worldtime features. I had always imagined just the opposite from looking at the production of other worldtime watches (Patek, etc.) It always seemed that the U.S. businesspeople were historically very self-centered and didn't tend to think in terms of the world market. The U.S. market was so large, businesses here weren't motivated to trade outside the borders as much as the Euro community does. This led me to believe that the worldtime would be more popular abroad where its features would be of practical use. Ilja, while we're speaking of Euro-market watches in your catalogs, have you ever seen a Euro-version of a Galaxy Mystery Dial referenced in the catalogs? I mentioned to Zaf in the past that I located a couple of NOS Galaxy dials (37-diamond Vacheron model type) from a parts source in Switzerland that are printed "Jaeger-LeCoultre" on the dials. These don't appear to be refinishes and they have me scratching my head wondering if the Galaxy was produced in a Euro version. All of the Euro-market mystery dial watches I've seen are significantly different from their U.S.-market counterparts, so it has me puzzled. Any thoughts? Greg | ||
| Ilja Probst Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 134 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I think the US was a bigger (or better) market for worldtime watches since there are several timezones within the country. So this was a useful feature especially for business people. We are speaking for the 50�s and 60�s, air traveling to different timezone was quite expensive and exlusive compared to today. So people in need of a TZ watch probably went to *better* brands like AP and PP. But again, that�s just my personal believe.  Ref E 334 - 35mm, Galaxy (1958) Ref 2230 - no diameter given, Mystery Dial(1958) Ilja | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Speaking of bogus Memovox WorldTime dials earlier in the post, there's a good example of a botched self-made WorldTime on auction right now that I've posted a picture of below. I do this not to harass the seller, but to educate the people interested in purchasing these watches how to determine real from fake. Look at the poor lettering on the WorldTime dial in the picture below. Notice how the outer dial covers up some of the letters of the cities. Notice how the cities near the alarm pointer are printed full size, instead of reduced. Compare this bogus dial with the original one I shared earlier in my post and you'll see huge differences. What I can't understand is that, as of this writing, there are 2 reasonably experienced Memovox collectors bidding on this watch. How is it possible they do not realize this is a fake? Perhaps they have placed low bids and are just wanting the watch for parts, because both inner and outer dials are refinished poorly. Check out the wavy printed minute track on the outer dial just under thr 12 o'clock position. Unbelievably bad redial.  P.S. Ilja, thanks for the JLC Mystery Dial info! It was exactly what I was looking for. | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 19 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
GregB- That does look pretty bad IMO. know this thread is a little old but I decided to jump in here anyway while I have time this weekend. Oh and here a poor webcam shot of my US LeCoultre memodate world timer alarm that was originally bought by my Father and given to me. He used to wear it on occasions and had added the Speidel watch band. I don't know what happened to the original band. As you can barely see, I have the case,manual and the guarantee. Sorry about the poor webcam pic, my digital camera is at work. | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 20 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
LOL. My poor pic didn't make it in my post. Zaf must be filtering bad pics. :-) | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1642 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hex Onx's example...  | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 42 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Zaf! Hexadecimal on X term! | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1643 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Does your paperwork match the watch? If so, does it mention a case reference number? | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 43 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
Zaf- Yes. However, I am currently at work so I can't recall if it mentions a case reference number. | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 44 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
Here is another other version Worldtime example. Not bad and does look NOS to me but I am not a expert. Comments please? The is a recent ended auction. http://tinyurl.com/cl787 | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1644 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The Worldtime disk is definitely redone. Note how "New York" runs into the alarm pointer (amongst several other problems). People on eBay like throwing that NOS term around like there is no tomorrow. | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 45 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
Ah. I see the alarm pointer hiding part of NY and Bangkok. A very good point. I agree with the NOS term. To me that would include the original box or case, registration and manual. Alas that is most unlikely. Since this item was without a case, who knows what it comes with but it did look like it was in some kind of package. Here is another interesting Worldtimer which was in the yahoo cache but appears not to be available because it's a french private collection source. Not for sale... http://www.finewatches.com/pages/JLCMemovox.htm Someone previously posted that the LeCoultre models had the arrow pointed to New York Bangkok and the JLC version arrow was to Geneva? This JLC is pointed to NYC... So this contradicts the previous info? BTW, check out the java time script http://www.finewatches.com/ | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 1648 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
"Someone previously posted that the LeCoultre models had the arrow pointed to New York Bangkok and the JLC version arrow was to Geneva? This JLC is pointed to NYC... So this contradicts the previous info? " Off the top of my head, I can't tell you. The disks move around during repair etc. I don't think it's necessarily right to make that hard a rule. If it's all JLC, I don't see where the pointer is aimed as having any bearing on price or authenticity. I can't tell if the dial on the picture you provide is original or not. Too blurry. On USA market world time alarms, there is NOT a specific case reference number that ensures that the watch started off as a worldtime. It is a very easy watch to fake. On the Euro watches, all I have been able to dig up is the case reference for manual wind Worldtime alarms (also shared with the Parking Memovox). As of this time, I have not been able to definitively confirm the existance of Automatic World time alarms. If someone has a JLC version, I'm interested to know what case reference number it has. | ||
| GregB Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Another example for readers of what *not* to buy. The "Rare LeCoultre World Time Wrist Alarm" (seller's description) pictured below is a fake... it didn't leave the factory as a worldtime model. What are the clues? 1)Notice how the cities on the inner worldtime disc have letters that are partially covered by the outer dial 2) Notice the poor quality of the worldtime city printing 3) Notice the alarm pointer on the wrong cities Ironically, this bogus worldtime is brought to us by the same fine seller that offered the other bogus worldtime that I posted in this thread on 10/01/05.  Be careful when buying a worldtime model to scrutinize the watch carefully. About 75% of the examples I see for sale are fakes. Greg | ||
| Hex Onx New member Username: Hexonx Post Number: 59 Registered: 09-2005 Rating: N/A |
All- This one might also be a conversion if you go by the partially covered letter check. See Hongkong? This just ended. The rest of it looks pretty good to me. However nobody bid on it... http://tinyurl.com/br9d3 |