| Author | Message | ||
     Seagull New member Username: Seagull Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
Hi I'm a new forum member. I'm a keen scholar (albeit very much at elementary level!) of vintage watches and am interested in learning about (and hopefully buying in due course) Memovoxes. I would be most grateful for any thoughts on this watch that appeared on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280526051219&ssPageName=ADME:B :BOC:DE:1123 I know Memovox World Times are particularly liable to be of questionable originality; is this another example of that? Finally (sorry for so many questions in a very first post), I'd be interested to hear advice on degrees of restoration. Would modest case polishing and dial cleaning (to remove corrosion etc) be considered acceptable on vintage Memovoxes? I have my eye on one that's pretty battered and the seller has offered to do some restoration but I'm not sure whether to go ahead with that. Thank you, and I look forward to participating on the forum and learning from fellow members. Paul | ||
| Gregb Advanced Member Username: Gregb Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
Paul, The Memovox Worldtime in the auction you referenced is NOT original. In fact, that particular seller (operating under at least 2 different IDs) is one of the worst offenders cranking out fake Worldtime Memovoxes. His watch are most often frankenwatches with wrong hands, refinished dials and made-up worldtime dials. The degree of restoration is a personal preference. Polishing, dial refinishing, replacing parts, etc. You can find people who draw different lines on what you should/shouldn't do to a vintage watch. In general, particularly with "important" or rare models, leave them as original as possible. Caution: be careful who you allow to do a "restoration". There are a lot of hacks out there who will carelessly do the work. Obviously, nobody is going to object to removing case corrosion (as you mention), but be careful not to round out the edges and try to get every scratch out if it means polishing a case to death. Greg | ||
| Seagull New member Username: Seagull Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
Thank you Greg, very helpful on both questions. Re the "fake" Worldtime, are there particular "giveaways" to look for on the dial? Paul | ||
| Gregb Advanced Member Username: Gregb Post Number: 269 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
A few of the German dial printers have become very good at printing these dials, but careful comparison of the printing and the placement of letters relative to the dial opening and alarm dial marker can be used for authentication. You need to be very familiar with the authentic worldtime models (I've wned several) to catch the differences. Another clue is the case reference/model of the watch in question. The Euro "Jaeger-LeCoultre" Memovoxes had very few case references available with a worldtime dial. Yet the counterfeiters add worldtime dials to tons of Memovox models that were never available with the worldtime option. U.S. version "LeCoultre" Memovoxes had many more models available with the worldtime dial option than their Euro cousins. I even have old dealer catalogs showing pocket alarms available with worldtime dials from the factory. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4679 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I have not been able to confirm (or deny) from the factory which JLC automatic alarms cases ever had a world time disk in them. | ||
| Danieldmark New member Username: Danieldmark Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
Gregb or Zaf, would you mind pointing out the particular differences in the watch that is being offered on eBay which make you think this seller is offering Frankenwatches? In this seller's current offer list there a few Memovox watches, all in great condition. That has made me suspicious, but it would be great help if you could take a few minutes to show us what gives these parituclar watches away as Frankens. Thanks! Daniel | ||
| Gregb Advanced Member Username: Gregb Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
Just for starters (and without even trying hard or looking closely): Auction 280526051219 Memovox has a Euro-market "JLC" dial on a US-market "LeCoultre" case and US-market movement. The case is from an E873 speed beat, but the dial is from an earlier E855 non-speed beat model. This watch is a complete jumble of mis-matched parts from several different watch models built 10 years apart and distributed on different continents. You would be hard-pressed to find a more glaring example of a frankenwatch than this. Auction 270563344520 Memovox has an HPG alarm dial on a cal 825 (non-HPG) movement and I believe that outer dial belongs with a cal 911 manual wind model. Auction 280526047046 Memovox has a fake worldtime dial, luminous markings (swiss made T) that do not agree with the dial/hands (possible dial refinish) Auction 270610410421 Memovox has a fake worldtime dial paired with a dial style that was never offered as a worldtime, with incorrect hands Auction 280526047046 Memovox is the only one they're selling that looks correct, but this is a very common manual model that should sell for $500-$700, not $3,000. Greg | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4680 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I'm very familiar with the German market and these guys know exactly what they're doing. They know full well these are franken watches. This is not some random event. | ||
| Gregb Advanced Member Username: Gregb Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
On the first auction review above, it appears that I merged the observations of 2 auctions (280526051219 and 280532221849) while jumping back and forth looking at different auctions, but you get the basic picture; virtually every Memovox they are selling is a put-together mess of mismatched parts from different Memovox models, often with a fake worldtime dial thrown into the mix as a bonus. | ||
| Seagull New member Username: Seagull Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
Thank you for the very enlightening tutorial. I'm making a note of that old but good piece of advice to "buy the seller" when it comes to building a vintage Memovox collection (or indeed any vintage watch). | ||
| Danieldmark New member Username: Danieldmark Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
Very impressive observations. Thank you, guys. ZAF: Would I be able to find those difference after reading your book? Or does it take a little more experience to find those differences? Daniel | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4682 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
On normal alarms yes, certainly. On WT alarms, I have yet to find a factory case reference number that would apply to automatic alarms, so those are harder to identify. The book does cover the only factory identifiable manual wind WT alarm. |