| Author | Message | ||
     Chris_de New member Username: Chris_de Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
Hello, searching for more information on a recently aquired JLC Ultra Thin I came across this forum. So, as always, first post, first questions: I have not seen a "vintage" version of the current 34mm Ultra Thin, so I wonder whether someone can confirm that this model existed and from what year/period this watch is: Movement is signed LeCoultre P838, adjusted to 5 positions Movement no. 1943425, Case no. 780532, case is signed JagerLeCoultre The dial is virtually identical to the current 34mm UT, shows a few signs of ageing. The hands are much simpler and flat, small signs of corrosion. The crown is not signed (maybe not original?). The caseback is rather simple, rounded and polished. Some photos (hope it works, for comparison (left) I used a current 34 Ultra Thin):       I am pretty sure that both the movement and the dial are original. But I am not sure whether this combination actually existed. - Are there anymore information on the movement available (such as production year, production period, technical specs)? - Has anyone ever seen this version and can date/verify this model? Thanks, Christian | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 292 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
LeCoultre signed movement with VXN import mark suggests a US market movement, while the dial is signed JLC. The case signature smells very fishy. What is the movement serial number? I would judge it as an artisian interpretation until further clarification. Did you buy it off ebay? The sellers alias would be interesting... Hehe. | ||
| Chris_de New member Username: Chris_de Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
... the movement number is 1943425. I see the verification in several steps: - Is the movement real? I would say yes - also had my watchmaker having a look at it (JLC AD), he would agree. - Would the case match to the movement? Case serial is 780532 (signed Jaeger-LeCoultre). I don't know - does anyone know, whether case and movement serial are from a similar period? Usually I am more into IWC, there you can use a freeware tool to date your watch. Also, movement/case serials are normally in the same magnitude - here they are quite different. On the other hand, JLC build many ebauches, so there should been way more JLC movements than cases produced. - Dial: Having compared the dial with a 100% original from my current model UT, I am quite sure that it is original - I can't spot any difference. Any hints what to look for in particular? - Combination: That is what I am particularly unsure about: I have seen JLC in similar cases and the movement would fit, but I have never seen that dial with a vintage watch. So the question would be: Was there a model like this? In case not, my first thought was that someone put a spare/replacement UT dial in a different model using case/movement of an older JLC? Any additional thoughts on this appreciated. @Ilja: Not from ebay, bought it on a watch fair here in Germany. Dealer came from Belgium and made the usual "watch fair dealer" impression - so the old mixture of trustworthy craftsmen and street-wise dope dealer ;-) Cheers, Christian | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4657 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The case serial numbers, generally speaking are lower than that of the movement numbers but not by a 3x ratio. With the American market movement that is in this watch, you would expect also a LeCoultre case and a LeCoultre dial (not JLC). So unless there was some last minute contruction of pieces, something doesn't add up. | ||
| Chris_de New member Username: Chris_de Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
#Zaf, Ilja: Thanks for the input, much appreciated. All that seems to be in line with my intial thought when seeing the watch. So most likely, a combination of a dial, a movement and a case from different models. Surprisingly, all this fits together quite well... what is also interesting that the movement somehow must have made it first to the US and then back to Europe again. Two more questions: - do you have a link where I can get a bit more background information on the movement? If I got it right, the 838 was the first "ultra thin" movement, some time from the 60ies and evolved into what today is the 849 (that was launched sometime in the mid-70ies, right?). Something like production period and production numbers would be interesting (in case this is available anywhere). - What do you think about the case? Does it resemble any JLC model you know about or would you think that is generic with case no and JLC signature just faked? The case-back is quite plain, but , for example, the form of the lugs is not that simple. Thanks, Christian | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 293 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
As Zaf pointed out, the case serial (estimated late 50s) is much to low for a movement serial dating to 1968. Further more, the dial locks very clean a bit to clean maybe, while the hands look "used". The brand marking of the case is definately fake, no such thing at the indicated period of time! Case engraving to shiny compared to the serial at least from the provided photos. Here is a completed aution for spare movement: http://cgi.ebay.ca/Jaeger-LeCoultre-Chronometer-Movement-cal-P-838-adj-5P-/14042 4965695?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item20b1faee3f Hope you didn`t pay to much for the watch.  | ||
| Chris_de New member Username: Chris_de Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2010 Rating: N/A |
@ Ilja: Thanks for the link and info - very helpful. The hands look aged and could be from the same period as the movement - so maybe they are original. Concerning the dial I agree with you, I don't think it's that old but simply a spare/replacement from the 1990/2000ies period model. It really looks like being taken out of a current UT. That the case engraving and serial do not fit at all is an interesting info. Having looked at the serial again under a loupe, that does not look very professional (numbers are not in line) - so either someone has added the serial to an existing, newer case (looks like 60ies/70ies to me, with the domed plexi) or simply faked all case engravings.  I was suspicious when I bought it because I had never seen the dial in a vintage model before - with that in mind, I did not offer that much (more in the OEM strap/clasp ballpark) and it was never intend to be a purist vintage investment for my collection. So, no regrets ;-)   Actually, I have to admit that I quite like this "interpretation" - my current range 34mm Ultra Thin is mostly worn by my wife, because it wears a bit too small on my wrist. The other case has a bit longer lugs, so the watch actually wears better for me. Cheers, Christian |