| Author | Message | ||
     Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hello, I�ve bought a vintage Reverso very recently that showes some differences from the "regular" vintage Reverso by LeCoultre, JLC or Jaeger: The dial reads "E. Gübelin" only (no "LeCoultre" plus "Gübelin"). This is a surprice to me since I thougt that "Gübelin" was a retailer as "Türler" e.g. that might have printed his name in addition to the manufacturers name on the dial. I was even bigger surprised after opening the swivel case to have a look at the movement: it looks like a normal period LeCoultre movement of the reverso but is rather signed "E. Gübelin" than "LeCoultre". Actually the whole watch looks like my other vintage Reverso watches (Jaeger and LeCoultre)of the mid 30's. Only the dial and the movement doesn't show the "usual names". Is there any information available about this particular Reverso? I will try to post some pictures in a few days. Many thanks and best regards | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Here are two pictures of the Reverso in question.  | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4313 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hi, I don't think there is anything unusual about a "GUBELIN" only signed dial. Here is a 1950s alarm made by JLC with only Gubelin on the dial: http://www.classicwatch.com/graphics/rx2149.jpg (Message edited by admin on December 07, 2009) | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hi Zaf, many thanks for your reply indeed. The sigature on the dial is the one thing. I understand that this was not unusual. But how about the signature on the movement. I never before saw a Reverso movement not being signed "LeCoultre" or "Jaeger LeCoultre". Actually the movement of this watch looks like the movement on page 31 of your excellent book, (with 15 jewels, 2 Adjs.), but with the sign "E. Gübelin" and not "LeCoultre". Was this usual as well? Is it the same with the 1950's alarm watch mentioned by you? Do you have any idea how old this watch might be? The serial no of the movement (16257) and the serial no of the case (10917, matching numbers) indicate an early production, don't they? One more thing I don't understand yet All Reverso cases (steel) I saw so far are signed "Acier Staybride". The case of the "E. Gübelin" is signed "Acier inoxid.". How might this come? And what might the letters on the backside of the case under the signature "Acier Staybride" (or: "Acier inoxid.") mean that show an "S" on one Reverso or an "W" on another? Any idea about that? Many thanks | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
movement of Gübelin Reverso  | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 279 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hi Thomas, I have a German language Reverso book left, drop me a line if interested. ;) Movement signature is ok for a Gübelin retailed watch. Türler used LeCoultre signed movements. I have no idea for the "W" or "S" letter. Sorry. A 16257 movement serial dates to 1931/32. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4321 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
"W" is for Wenger the case maker, "S" might be some other case maker. | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hello Ilja, thanks for the information given. If the serial number dates to 1931/1932 the watch seems to be one of the very early ones with a LeCoultre movement, doesn't it? How would you quote the value of this watch compared to e.g. one of the end-30's to the mid-40's? Higher, same or lower? Do you have any idea about the signature "Acier inoxid." instead of "Acier Staybride"? I thought all the Reverso (steel-) cases have been made of Acier Staybride. Zaf, thanks for your reply that was very much appreciated as well. How many different case makers for Reverso cases do you know if I may ask? Did the different case makers use different steel, e.g. Wenger "Acier Staybride" and some other case makers "Acier inoxid." or is it all the same actually? Regards | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 4323 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I don't know the totality of the case makers, but the very early ones were made by Wenger. Acier "Staybrite" is a specific type of stainless steel, which was high in chrome and had a tendency to pit when exposed to a lot of sweat. Acier Inoxidable, if just "stainless steel" perhaps of a different composition with less chrome. They're both stainless steel. | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hello Zaf, do you know any LeCoultre, Jaeger or JaegerLeCoulte Reverso watches with the stamp "Acer inoxid." or were all of them made of Acier Staybride to your knowledge? There is one interesting thing I would like to tell you. I asked JLC in Nuernberg (the German headquarter of JLC) yesterday if they would give my Gübelin Reverso a factory service. Guess what they answered. They only offer their service for LeCoultre, Jaeger LeCoultre and some Jaeger watches, not for this watch of their former competitor (!) Gübelin who sold Reverso watches under his own name or produced them in license... I thought Gübelin was a retailer only who sold LeCoultre Reversos as to my knowledge Türler did as well. Did they produce Reverso watches under licence as well (as e.g. Hamilton did)? I didn't find anything about this so far, neither in your book nor in "The living legend". By the way: Thank you for your very helpful and kind assistance. | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 280 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Sorry to say, but the Nuremberg staff has no clue about their vintage heritage. The LeSentier guys are of more knowledge. Nuremberg sends watches to LeSentier if they don't have the abillity to do the restauration or the customer demands it. But beware, both do strange things, like overpolishing or usage of signed crowns i.e. Your Gübelin Reverso is a geniue LeCoultre product, just labeled on the retailers specifics. Guess your most desire is a NOS dial for the watch, sorry, perhaps they have a blank dial left, but the retailer printing will be added by an external very skilled dial refinisher as far as I was told. There is no real difference when it comes to value, regarding year of production. Market usually just differs Tavannes, subsecond and sweep second. | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Ilja, actually I am thinking of changing the worn out Gübelin dial since I happen to have a better LeCoultre Reverso dial. But this wouldn't be original, would it? But the more importend thing seems to be to get a new glass since the one fitted is not fitting correctly and of the lower grade. The movement seems to be a deluxe (2 Adj.)so it would have to be a high grade glass I guess?  | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 281 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Should be a saphire crystal according to informations the 'living legend' book gives. As a hint, JLC used to do partital repairs (Teilreparatur), so just getting the crystal changed might be an option. ;) | ||
| Thomas New member Username: Thomas Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Ilja, thank you very much for your kind assistance. I will ask them. Zaf, the same for you. Your assistance was very much appreciated. Many thanks indeed. | ||
| Thomas Junior Member Username: Thomas Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hello again, are there any vintage Reverso watches know (besides of the E. Gübelin Reverso as mentioned above) having signed "Acier inox." on the steel case rather than "Acier Staybride"? Many thanks |