| Author | Message | ||
     James_d New member Username: James_d Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi Zaf. What is your opinion on the truth of the caliber 463 being an issued Luftwaffe watch? I have read of one being recovered from a crash site, but I understand that JLC deny having made these for the Luftwaffe. Any thoughts? Thanks James | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 223 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
...not to be published yet.  | ||
| Claudio New member Username: Claudio Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
Eh ! Those who really knows they don't speak, not yet. James D, no answer to your question, but for some pics, speculations, have a brief look here http://heinkeljlc.blogspot.com/ | ||
| James_d Junior Member Username: James_d Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Woah! I didn�t know it was all so Top Secret! LOL. I shall say only "I want to believe!" (mainly because I just bought one) | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 248 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
...just as a reminder for Zaf. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 3651 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Just spoke to the JLC historian TODAY. The 463 watch in question was produced in 1942 and in 1943. I think 30,000 were made. According to JLC "there is no record of where the watches were delivered" and the fact that the case and movement serial #s match "may have been a special order". So, it looks like this will remain forever, a matter of speculation. One day, I'll ask them to grant me a fews days at the factory, just to see what I can dig up. | ||
| Claudio Junior Member Username: Claudio Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the updating. For some this is thriling. Leon Constantin (mentioned in M. Frtiz's book, The Living Legend) saw with his eyes two assigned from Berlin going every month at the JLC office in Geneve to check the watches ordered. As reported by Zaf, from the Factory they say that the cal. 463 - movement and case nr. matching - may have been a special order. (Not sure, but to my knowledge only the Luftwaffe requested that spec.). One cal. 463 has been found in a place were a German bomber crashed in 1944 (they didn't found the aircraft but the watch !). It make sense but yes, only speculation. We need an 'assigned' going at the Factory to check all archives and documents ! | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 3654 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Well, IF it is a Luftwaffe watch, it isn't useful as a "pilot's" watch. The small sub seconds makes it more of a ground watch. As a ground watch, it isn't really useful either, because it isn't water proof at all. I think if it was a German delivery, it's probably more of a watch made available for private purchase or was given as gifts, etc. I say this because I don't see how it would be useful as a military watch that could see action. | ||
| James_d Junior Member Username: James_d Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
I wonder about that... In an aircraft, surely you would have a light with which to read the watch? Although, you�d certainly have a clock on board too. So could we assume that the wrist watches were just a back up in the aircraft? If the main clock was shot out or broke, then you would need some kind of timekeeping device for navigation? Would a sub second 463 really be of "no use", when a 6B/159 is virtually no larger, also not waterproof and is not even luminous - and they were deemed to be good enough for the Allies to use. Just a though. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 3664 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
It's not the size of the watch I'm talking about, it's the size of the SWEEP SECOND. On a 6B/159 even though the watch is the same size, the sweep second is much more readable than a cal 463. I just don't see this as a aircraft navigation piece, particularly when we know that the B-Uhrs were a massive 55mm in diameter with a huge luminous sweep second. | ||
| James_d Junior Member Username: James_d Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
I understood what you meant. The sub second is tiny on the 463. I sometimes have to stare at mine to see if its still going or not. If I knew more about aircraft navigation - well ANYTHING about aircraft navigation, then I might have a better clue I suppose. What were B-uhren specifically used for? | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 3669 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Do a google search on "dead reckoning", that's one of the old school style navigating that requires a good easy to read precise timepiece. | ||
| Rafalbar New member Username: Rafalbar Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2009 Rating: N/A |
I do not think it was use by luftwaffe, but jlc in this style was often popular watch among German officers, the funny thing is that black dial jlc 469 watch was used in an old polish movie about the occupation by main character - German officer, visible from close on the first screen. But the other site is that SS was taking everything valuable also watches from the countries they get - so its not really convincing that such a watch even if was found at the crush site, would be used as part of pilot's standard equipment. here is the link to 469 photos http://zegarkiclub.pl/forum/index.php?showtopic=23667&hl=klos regards Rafal |