| Author | Message | ||
     Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi, I bought this Lecoultre Chronograph in an auction last week. I'm a bit afraid I paid way to much for it (EUR 2380) although it is in mint condition (NOS) ( There was a "buy-it-now option for EUR 7750) Can anyone confirm that the following info is correct: Movement: Valjoux 23 - were these made by JLC in LeSentier or bought from someone else - if so, who? Year of manufacture: 1950 - correct? The case is marked 402.xxx - what does that tell me? I would also love to know what the model is called and what it is actually worth. Thank you very much in advance for any help! | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2835 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hate to bear the bad news, but in my opinion, its a fake. If you haven't paid yet, I'd hold off on it. | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
here is the original post on ebay the seller seems very trustworthy (more than 14.000 positive ratings) why do think it is fake? Thanks for the help, greatly apreciated! | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320159520683&ssPageName=S TRK:MEWN:IT&ih=011 | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2836 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The signature on the movement bridge is incorrect. LeCoultre signed in a curved way is fake. Period. They have been a rash of watches coming out Germany over the past couple of years that are like that. Possibly by the 100s. Possibly from the same person. When he can nab people for $3000 for a watch that's probably worth $600, there is financial incentive to be creative. The movement does not appear to be NOS anyways. Here is a Google search you may find interesting. http://www.google.com/search?as_q=webauktion24+fake&hl=en&rlz=1T4GZHZ_enUS223US2 24&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetyp e=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe =images | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear Zaf, thank you vey much for this info! Unfortunatley I have already paid. Have you any experience on how to deal with this kind of auction house? Do they have to take it back? | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2837 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The problem with "LeCoultre" is that it is the USA product of "Jaeger-LeCoultre". They operated as a seperate company and when it stopped operations in the 1970s, none of the production records made their way back to LeSentier. So it is IMPOSSIBLE for the factory to have an opinion on these watches other than the movement. With chronos, since the movements are themselves not JLC products (they're sub contracted out to Valjoux or Universal Geneva) it is not possible to authenticate them. That's why most of the fake chronos are made as LeCoultre. With Jaeger or JLC you can give the case # and the factory can vouch for it. This is not the case for LeCoultre unfortunately. So it's your word against theirs. I'm sure they'll tell you it's 3x signed a genuine. Not sure what you can do about it. | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Just checked the terms on their site - there seems to be a full return policy. Hope I get out of this. Thanks a million for your advice, next time I ask your opinion first! If I get this right - would you recommend entirely against LeCoultre Chronographs? How can I tell they are real? | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2838 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I'll post some real movements and case back markings next week. That should give people a fighting chance. These German fakes are really good. I suspect in 10 years, once they've made enough, no one will know the difference. | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Zaf could this be yet another fake chrono? It's also stated to be a 1950 model and to have a valjoux 23 movement. http://www.chrono24.com/web/de/hersteller/u/j/jaegerlecoultre/1299881.htm?such=1 &lastshowpage=10 | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2841 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I'd have to see the movement on that one, but at a minimim the dial is repainted. The USA market you never have something marked "21 RUBIS". Also though there are a few Valjoux 23s used by JLC (I have never seen them with LeCoultre), most frequently, for non water-proof model, Universal Geneve caliber were used. So seeing a Val 23 in itself is reason for caution. | ||
| Dmackuk New member Username: Dmackuk Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi there, excuse me if I am in the wrong forum but I have a JLC MK XI circa 1949 which I am looking to sell or exchange for an I-mac computer. The watch is No48 on the tracking list and has been verified as genuine by JLC. There is a small crack to the plexiglass, the second hand is missing and the hands need a new luminous paint applied. The watch keeps perfect time and is in very good condition. I am trying to find out the price I should be expecting to get for a sale and would be grateful for any advice. | ||
| Herrk New member Username: Herrk Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi Roth93, I see "your" chrono is on the bay again! Does that mean that at least the return policy of the seller worked? That would be nice to hear! Cheers Christian | ||
| Smash New member Username: Smash Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2005 Rating: N/A |
It's unbelievable that this webauktion24 people are selling mariages and fakes for several years. Last week I was really glad to see on German TV a documentation were they said, that some people are going to take this guys to court :-) | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2882 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
They know exactly what they are doing too. I'm glad somone is doing something about it as all this stuff is contaminating the genuine thing. | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi everyone - yes I got my money back without problems. They are actually auctoning two lecoultre chronos right now! | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Here is the new one - supposedly 1958 NOS. It actually comes with a box. Can it be real? Is the box real? http://cgi.ebay.de/LECOULTRE-CHRONOGRAPH-HERRENUHR-VON-1958-UNGETRAGEN_W0QQitemZ 320171842846QQihZ011QQcategoryZ9242QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2886 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
The box is real. The watch does not have a single LeCoultre part in it. It is a completely made up model. This guy really belongs in jail. | ||
| Roth93 New member Username: Roth93 Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Zaf would you post pictures of some real chronos of the area? I would be really curious as to how they are actually supposed to look. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2887 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Yes, I pulled a few out of my safe last week and as soon as I have a moment, I planned on taking a few pictures. Here is a real one showing proper movement signature for a Jaeger model.  | ||
| Ilja Moderator Username: Ilja Post Number: 205 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Hi guys, regarding "webauktion24" - I have sent them countless emails about their faked LeCoultre watches in their early days. Never got any reply nor they canceled their auctions. Even reported them to ebays fraud section, as usual without success. So again to all watch interested out there: DON'T BUY ON EBAY unless you are skilled enough or can afford a total loss. Period. | ||
| James_d New member Username: James_d Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
I guess I really was lucky with my WWW from Ebay! Aside from it not running properly anyhow. Hmmm... Still unbelievable that these guys can carry on getting away with this highly public fraud. | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2889 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
I can't tell how many watches I get from people that have bought on eBay for repair work. It's incredible. Maybe 4 out of 5 pieces need work just to get them going properly. | ||
| James_d New member Username: James_d Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Yeah - Add another one to that list! It runs just fine, when its lying on its side, so I guess it can�t be too terminal. My watchmaker is sorting it out now anyway, at not too great a cost. I�m just relieved it turned out to be genuine, fixable and in (visually at least!) very good condition. Thanks for your advice BTW. (PS - do you know - is a Favre Leuba worth anything? Just a regular black faced watch - maybe `50ies) | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2890 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
Actually running well in one position can be very difficult to repair. The staff can be off center, the balance out of round, etc. Not necessarily an easy fix. A lot of watches have totally trashed balances that can take hours of tuning to make them run acceptably. A time only Favre Leuba is generally not worth a whole lot unless it has an usual design of some kind. | ||
| James_d New member Username: James_d Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 Rating: N/A |
Oh Jeez, don�t tell me that. Well, if the external unmarked appearance is anything to go by, then its lack of use thats a problem, not that its worn out. Cross your fingers for me, eh? thanks again Zaf | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2898 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
What you're looking for in buying a JLC is that the balance is running in one plane and not visibly jumping around (out of true). Bent balance wheels or off center ones are a real pain in the arse to correct. Fingers crossed. | ||
| Andyzolex New member Username: Andyzolex Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Rating: N/A |
Evening all I am a new boy to this club... but have always shared the passion for JLC watches... my problem I have no expert knowledge of fake vs the real thing...! Hmmmmmm... My wife has allowed me !? or should I say I have some money to spend and would very much appreciate your advice and opinion with regards to these current e-bay offerings - 1973 Jaeger Le Coultre Club, Steel Automatic 1937 Jaeger Le Coultre Art deco. Two tone dial. Many Thanks Andy | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 2957 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
"1973 Jaeger Le Coultre Club" is not a good watch movement wise, very cheaply made. The "Club" series was their "budget" line of watches and freuqently did not have JLC movements in them. If the 1937 is of a size that suits you, I would go with that. | ||
| Andyzolex New member Username: Andyzolex Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for your feedback.... I suppose my concern is - looking at many of the other postings that the watches are original and relatively unmolested... your opinion appreciated... Or- alternatively can you recommend an on line retailer of JLC vintage models..? Andy |