| Author | Message | ||
     Mike Burduck Rating: |
Guys, Do any of you know anything about these watches? I've seen where $7,000 Montres Allison watches are selling on eBay for anywhere from $400 to $700. No offense intended to anyone, but is all of this on the level? Just wondering. Many thanks for your thoughts! Mike Burduck | ||
| zaf Rating: N/A |
The retail price is completely bogus in this case and serves only to inflate the eventual sales price. Zaf | ||
| Mike Burduck Rating: N/A |
Thanks, Zaf. That's sort of what I expected! Mike | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: |
That's not accurate Zaf. The Montres Allison pieces go for low prices on ebay because of several factors. 1. Non transferable warranties. 2. Lack of overall name recognition. 3. Take a look at most watches on ebay (brand new included), and they won't sell 99% of the time if the price is at even 50% of retail. This includes most brands. 4. People are less likely to pay closer to full retail for a brand that they haven't ever seen or heard of. The Montres Allison watches are sold in retail stores at full retail prices. Montres Allison watches have been around for five years or so and have lifetime warranties. A quick check of the Denver BBB website shows that they have never had a single complaint. Their niche is that they use components from around the world including Asia in their watches. All of their watches have genuine alligator or croc straps and sapphire crystals on the front and back. Their presentation boxes are very nice and include a wallet, certificate of authenticity, polishing cloth, international warranty card, catalogs, and a bracelet resizing tool. Their movements have very unique finishes that I have never seen on any other brand of watches. Their watches are water resistant to 165 feet (5 atm). They all have screw down crowns and all of the extra gaskets. They have a number of very unique designs and a number of full fledged real tourbillons. They also produce watches out of solid gold and platinum and with diamond bezels. And most of their pieces have been produced in extremely limited editions. Now, I will say that a review I saw a few years ago of their very first watch (Jour et Nuit)wasn't very impressive. Most of the comments in that review had to do with lack of finish on the movement, but you can see that they have since put display backs on all of their watches and the movements are very well finished and uniquely finished unlike any other movements in the world. Now... What is that worth? A very unique movement, lifetime warranty, sapphire front and back, 5 atm water resistance.... It seems like it should be worth a lot more than I have seen the watches go for on ebay. Mike Strickland (aka Baron Harkonnen -- one of the most prolific WIS forum posters ever) has stated a number of times that his Montres Allison watch is as good as any off the shelf Omega and we all know that he has had a tremendous amount of experience with watches. Ross Feinstein (former TZ moderator) has said that his MA watch is as good as any Omega, Fortis, and Oris that he has seen. So, if these guys have made comments like this and we know and trust their comments, and the Montres Allisons are much more unique than the massed produced Omegas, etc. that they were talking about, and they have lifetime warranties, then it seems to me that their pricing is probably appropriate. Now the FP Journe watches with all of their bad press and problems and the Franck Muller scandal (calling Russian movements Swiss Made) and the Jaquet scandal (producing counterfeits of the best known brands in order to sell them to unsuspecting consumers asauthentic watches) are very bad. But Montres Allison has been around for awhile, have had no complaints that I've ever seen, and have lifetime warranties. To be fair, Terry Allison II was the founder of another watch forum and had and probably still has enemies from the other sites with watch forums. Can competitors be called enemies? :-) He was still managing his forum that had a large amount of traffic when he started producing watches and the competing forum owners seemed intent on discrediting him and succeeded at least with most WIS and probably some potential customers. But he has stuck with it and is producing some neat, well made stuff, and you can even see a webcam of their facility on their website and see them producing Montres Allison watches. Some people act like since his first watch (produced five years ago didn't receive a good review, then none of his products could possibly be any better. They are much better now than the one that I read about in that review. Don't be so quick to be negative on them. Regards, John | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 358 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
My comments do not refer to the quality of the watches (though at a glance, the 3-4 that I have seen seem to be cheaply made) and use cases commonly found in low end generic Swiss watches. If I were a "retail" customer, for my $7,000+ I'd be looking for a case that wasn't an off the shelf item. The cause for concern, is that the watches are trading new for 5-10% of "retail" which does not reflect well on the brand, whether it is well made or not, wheher it comes with warranty or not. In any event, if you like the watches, there is nothing wrong with that. Best, Zaf | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: |
Zaf, I have seen a number of their pieces and they have been very good quality. My guess is that they've gotten much better as they've continued on in their business. A quick look at their website shows that all of their newer models are priced under $2000 with the highest being $1895. This of course excludes their tourbillons. Maybe their stuff was priced too high in the beginning, but they are very limited editions with lifetime warranties. And now they have very reasonably priced watches with lifetime warranties for under $2000.00 retail. I just think they've made some very nice progress with their company and the finishing of their watches since they started selling them five years ago. I guess that this is to be expected. I remember reading about early Franck Muller's on thepurists and about the low quality of the finish. I just read on tz about about a several years old RGM that somebody bought and the person was disappointed that the movement had no finish on it whatsoever and Roland upgraded it to a well finished movement (for a fee of course). I also have seen and read about early Wilsdorf and Davis watches and even the newer Rolexes with pretty plain jane finishes in them. It seems that the status quo is to start manufacturing and then learn from your customers that people want very beautiful movements and then start producing them. I also remember the early Limes watches with no finish on the movements and then they started finishing them much nicer. Seems to be par for the course. Have a nice day. Regards, John | ||
| Zaf Moderator Username: Zaf Post Number: 359 Registered: 05-2003 Rating: N/A |
John, fair enough, perhaps another look is in order. Thanks for the participation. Best, Zaf | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: |
No problem. I hope to visit your site more often. Regards, John | ||
| Noose Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
They're Russian watches with new dials. Orions, Dolphins and (for the higher-end ones) perhaps some Poljots. I assume the seller tweaks the movements a bit in the process of replacing the dials. "JP Levent" plays the same game. | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Noose... You're wrong. Here... Have a look... http://www.allisonwatches.com/ensvizzengarten and you can also read this information from the tz ahci forum... Here is the link to a listing for them: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31387&item=4104483483&rd= 1 Read it all. They are producing plates, bridges, rotors, etc. out of precious metals. Nice move IMHO. Solid 18k yellow gold, white gold, rose gold, and platinum rotors (rotors are the weighted pendulums that you see rotating inside the back of your automatic Montres Allison timepieces) may be added to your Montres Allison timepiece at the time of service. These rotors are hand made and hand finished by Montres Allison in Colorado, USA and are the perfect addition to your Montres Allison luxury timepieces. Please be sure to clearly indicate the color of gold you are ordering on the service form. For your convenience, you may phone us at 303-883-5366 so that we may process your credit card for payment. Upon completion of this auction, please go to: http://www.montresallison.com/servicemain.htm, then click on the service form, print it, fill it out thoroughly, and include it when sending your watch to the Montres Allison service department for the upgrade of your rotor. Please specify if you would like something different hand engraved on your rotor than what is currenty engraved on it. Sometimes, customers like to have their initials or a date engraved on the rotor. Above you can see a rotor for a Katravan in the picture on the left, and the picture on the right shows an Aspen Extreme rotor next to an unpolished Lindimom rotor. These rotors are available for all Montres Allison automatic timepieces including Jour et Nuit, Slaathaug, Etalon Master, Master Calendar, Ciclone I and II, Uragano I and II, Reserve de Marche I and II, Energie, Jitana I and II, Tourbo Billion, Coeur de Temps I and II, Jordynelisse I and II, Etalon I and II, Evolution I and II, Stiles Chronograph, Cadwallader Chronograph, Tempeste Date Grande, Ciclone Midi, Generateur, Geova, Katravan, Aspen Extreme, Phat Bois, Tallisonii, Lindimom, etc., but does not include manual wind Montres Allisons such as the various models of the tourbillon and the Tempeste. If your timepiece has a solid caseback, our service department will also provide you with a digital photograph of the inside of your Montres Allison timepiece with the solid gold rotor. We will return your original rotor to you when your watch is sent back with its new rotor. ** You may also request that other components such as plates bridges, cases, crowns, dials, and clasps be handmade and hand finished out of precious metals directly by Montres Allison in Colorado, USA. Please contact us for more information. International bidders must pay additional shipping charges due to higher shipping costs. Please contact us for shipping rates if you are outside the US. ** You may also request that other components such as plates bridges, cases, crowns, dials, and clasps be handmade and hand finished out of precious metals directly by Montres Allison in Colorado, USA. Please contact us for more information. *** Montres Allison is now producing engine turned dials and hand engraved dials and hand painted, unique dials made in Colorado, USA from various metals including 18k yellow, white, and rose gold, and platinum. **** Montres Allison is now producing precious metal watch cases in Colorado, USA. The newest of which is made from the material called Sterling Platinum. The Sterling Platinum cases are very hard and will not tarnish due to the platinum content in the alloy. ***** Montres Allison has just completed a 10.05 carat weight diamond paved case for a Katravan and a 3.65 carat diamond bezeled Tallisonii. Have a look at the MA webcam or the static pictures of their facilities by going to the Montres Allison website. | ||
| Noose Unregistered guest Rating: |
Or, of course, it could be one of a job lot bought from Million Smart Enterprises of Hong Kong. http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&desig n=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&supplier_id=6 008802694995&product_id=8809909834&action=GetProduct | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Yeah. That looks similar to their MA 200.101, but I can see that at least the crown looks different from only the photo on their website and the photo that you have posted. Since they came out with the Jour et Nuit in 1999, and that watch is for sale by Million Smart, today, I'd say that is looks like an imitation of the Montres Allison. Pretty much like a fake Rolex. They look pretty much exact in pictures, but when you compare them closely and open the backs, you can see the differences. Looks like the Million Smart product is a knockoff IMHO. | ||
| Noose Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Who'd have thought it. It turns out the "Dolphin" version sold through Russian sources also has the Chinese movement. Which is fine as long as you know what you're getting. The best source on this is, of course, the TimeZone article http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=1016&rid=0 | ||
| Noose Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
PS: Million Smart's site tells us they'll sell them with custom dials and crowns. My Dolphin has a signed crown and, of course, a custom dial. And, with the warranty protection provided by the dealer, it might just have been worth the few quid I paid for it. If I'd bought the same watch with a "JP Levent" brand for �400 from walshbrothers.com I'd be pretty miffed, though. I do appreciate Mr Lansing's devotion to the issue. | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Um... I don't understand... Are you on a mission or working some kind of agenda? The pictures and video on the Montres Allison website clearly show WHITE people working on Montres Allison watches. Here is the link - http://www.montresallison.net/ensvizzengarten. This doesn't seem likely if they were being made in China. One could suggest that TAG Heuers are made by the Chinese people that make the exact replicas of the TAGs. And the list could go on... Rolex, Movado, Patek, etc., etc. You're talking about a five year old watch from Montres Allison that was produced in 200 pieces according to their site and you're comparing it to knockoffs and replicas. Why not state that all of the fake Rolex sites must be producing Rolexes? I don't get it. You're entitled to your opinion, but it just doesn't make sense to me. | ||
| Noose Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
The Battle of Helm's Deep scene in LOTR showed orcs and elves and by gawd walking trees. It's not beyond the wit of man to show caucasians making watches. D'you think the folks at TAG refuse to hire people 'cause they're ethnically Chinese? Do Chinese-Americans not work in watch shops in Colorado? I keep advising myself not to come between a grifter and his marks, and that (per Robert Heinlein) you have to have larceny in your heart to be swindled. And everyone has to make a living; and if you can put food on the table by flogging watches for silly prices, then good on you. I am particularly impressed by the logic of representing other watches from the same Chinese factory as "knockoffs". The internal logic is just so beautiful. Then I read another "John Lansing" post with this intense sincerity and the Montres Allison web site at your fingertips, and the white people in your shop and I just have to giggle. | ||
| John Lansing Unregistered guest Rating: |
I think you're suggesting that Montres Allison has made fake pictures of caucasians manufacturing and assembling their watches? As I look at their webpage, I see this quote "Welcome to Ensvizzengarten. Ensvizzengarten is the name of the Montres Allison facility located in the Rocky Mountains, west of Denver, Colorado, USA. Ensvizzengarten is the home of Montres Allison luxury timepieces. Please feel free to contact us at 303-582-5217 to schedule a visit to our facility where you will be able to see components being manufactured and finished as well as service and assembly of Montres Allison Luxury Timepieces. Click Here for a map to our facility. Click Here to view our webcam and watch Montres Allison luxury timepieces being designed, assembled and serviced." 1. They invite you and me and everybody else in the world to visit them to see all of the equipment and processes. 2. They have a video on their website that matches to their pictures that shows things from engine turning to assembly to polishing to grinding and finishing. I don't think that any company would go as far as publicly inviting people to visit their workshop if the pictures were faked. They really do have a lot of pictures and video there and the invitation seals the deal to me. I'm going to email them and ask them about visiting them and see what they say. They even have their address and a map to it. I'd invite you to do the same with me. If it is faked, then I bet that they would make some excuse. If not then I bet that they will reply with an invitation and without making the excuses. | ||
| Xavier Madrigal Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Wow, this was a very interesting debate between you two. I just wanted to say that I purchased a Montres Allison Watch one year ago and I wear it all the time. I also have a Cartier and a Christian Dior and I get more compliments on my Ensvizzengarten masterpiece. | ||
| Juliet Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
I have read reviews that state, the Frank Muller knock off is better than the Montres Allison Original. There was also a picture of the inner workings of the knock off Frank Muller and an original Montres Allison. I look at this as fear and propaganda on Frank Muller's part because Montres Allison can make a watch comparable to the Frank Muller Watch without the high price tag. What percentage of the cost of the Frank Muller Watch is for the name recognition? I purchased my first Montres Allison Watch, not knowing anything about the Company or the Watch Makers but, because of the unique styles Montres Allision has to offer. I get compliments everytime I wear one of my Montres Allison Watches because they are like "One of a Kind". People have not seen another watch with the style that are produced by Montres Allison. Frank Muller has a Watch out that is marked at over $80,000 that has the same style as the Montres Allison, but the Montres Allison has a MUCH reduced price. Both watches are Limited Editions. Both watches have the same features and side by side are hard to tell apart. The one difference is the Frabk Muller is Platinum which I know makes a difference, but not about a $60,000 to 70,000 difference. The Frank Muller I looked at had a Leather Band and the Montres Allison had a solid stainless steel band. I believe the Montres Allison was 35 Sapphires. You don't see this grade in a normal watch. It did not state any features about the Frank Muller. In conclusion I feel the Montres Allison Watch has become a threat to many higher brand name watches and thus the propaganda begins. I have so many Montes Allison Watches and get compliments on every one I wear. I do not get any compliments when I wear my Rolex. | ||
| M. W. Brown Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
The Montres Allison watches are not made here. They may be altered here but they are not manufactured here. Look up some of the Newton and Sons timepieces. Many are identical to the "one of a kind" Montres Allsion pieces. Both companies are supplied by global sources. They do look cool. They are not Cartier caliber | ||
| KurtS Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Anyone considering purchasing a Montres Alison watch should read this article: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=1016&rid=0 Use your own judgement; don't let anyone convince you to buy any watch without adequate proof. If you have any doubts about a watch, bring it to a respected watchmaker and get their idependent opinion. |
