| Author | Message | ||
     Tommyg New member Username: Tommyg Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2010 Rating: N/A |
I picked this up recently, but now I'm told that it may be a commercial watch engraved to look like an RAF issued 6b/159. It originally had fixed bars, but the lugs were later drilled to accept spring bars. The engraving looks almost exactly like that on a 6b/159 owned by a friend in France. The movement is JLC 470 caliber. What do you think?  | ||
| Tommyg New member Username: Tommyg Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2010 Rating: N/A |
Here's another photo.  | ||
| Tommyg New member Username: Tommyg Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2010 Rating: N/A |
And one of the face (w/o crystal).  | ||
| Claudio Junior Member Username: Claudio Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
I think it's real and original in everything, even the original thin crown. Very nice watch. Here, in the JLC vintage Forum ther's a post about this same watch by a guy who obtained it by the original owner. Claudio | ||
| Claudio Junior Member Username: Claudio Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2006 Rating: N/A |
The post I mentioned can be found on JLC vintage Forum, Archived Messages 2009, 6B/159 with history, (1.24.09) by Gerard. Her's the pics he posted (I'm just unable to attach the link)   | ||
| Blgg Intermediate Member Username: Blgg Post Number: 185 Registered: 04-2007 Rating: N/A |
Here is the dial and movement out of the case. Note how the dial is notched to match the cutout of the rather rare Cal470. (t&b Screw holes in dial matching movement.)  Does anyone know if the Cal 470 (Cal 450 look-alike) was used in watches other than the 6b/159?  | ||
| Tommyg New member Username: Tommyg Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2010 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Claudio. I looked at that post and there are pics of the watch I am referring to (farther down in the post from the pics you posted). These pics show the watch with a different dial and movement however. It appears that later it received a "correct" dial and movement. So here's the question: Is it now an "original" RAF issued 6B/159? Here's the seller's take on it: "any collection of precise, correct pieces together is a correct piece, in the world of watch collection." What's the opinion of the experts and collectors here? It's an interesting dilemma and one I, as a relatively new collector haven't formed an opinion on yet. I keep thinking it should be like cars I have restored in the past. If I rebuild the motor, put in a new interior and paint it, its a restored car; no longer "original" and when I sell it, I advertise that its "restored". But then again maybe the seller is correct and if its all the right pieces, who's to say its not original? TommyG | ||
| Blgg Intermediate Member Username: Blgg Post Number: 186 Registered: 04-2007 Rating: N/A |
In my view, it is not possible to test the proposition that a 6b/159 watch remains as it was the day out of the factory, or the day it was decommissioned, Is there any way to document any precise combination of correct, correctly dated components... were they so specifically tailored or recorded? If not, in my view, literally all must be suspect. ... if all the pieces of an assembled 6b/159, clearly as best discerned using what references we have, are from some 6b/159... and all components are further correct regarding the two major 6b/159 variations... and the known movement manufacture date is appropriate... with the process made easier with pieces typically used in only 6b/159s [ie the blued hands] What, indeed, is provenance? However well transcribed and attested and witnessed by whomever's granddaddy's signature doesn't confirm anything, though it may help someone with a heavy heart... Looking at it another way, I'd rather have a specimen, in exemplary condition, with all the right parts in all the right places, than any possible inconsistencies explained away by a bromine, familial narrative. | ||
| Blgg Intermediate Member Username: Blgg Post Number: 187 Registered: 04-2007 Rating: N/A |
sorry, meant 'bromide' last line | ||
| Blgg Intermediate Member Username: Blgg Post Number: 188 Registered: 04-2007 Rating: N/A |
May I suggest refinements to your car restoration analogy? You note the repainting of cars - would this not better compare to the painting of dials? The originality of the dial in question, at this time at least, is not suggested by any party yet, to be repainted. I consider it original and indeed exceptional at high magnification. The movement has certainly been fully serviced, with authentic, vintage parts from 'doner' movements -- a term you may become familiar with should your collecting fever persist. - re: I keep thinking it should be like cars I have restored in the past. If I rebuild the motor, put in a new interior and paint it, its a restored car; no longer "original" and when I sell it, I advertise that its "restored". But then again maybe the seller is correct and if its all the right pieces, who's to say its not original? - TommyG | ||
| Blgg Intermediate Member Username: Blgg Post Number: 189 Registered: 04-2007 Rating: N/A |
... perhaps if the British RAF had documented which6b/159 case cap number corresponded with which movement number? --- along with a new, documented, individual number on the rear of the dial. Or better yet like the old Reversos, with matching numbers on literally all case parts + movement. Then you might really begin to establish credibility for a 6b/159 provenance, in my view. But then, when the RAF mass-collected all the watches for servicing during wartime, they'd have an additional task of keeping all the numbers together. | ||
| Blgg Intermediate Member Username: Blgg Post Number: 190 Registered: 04-2007 Rating: N/A |
sorry, also meant 'donor' (not 'doner') - post 188 | ||
| James1899 New member Username: James1899 Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2011 Rating: N/A |
I think it's real and original in everything, even the original thin crown. |